Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: Butchery: bug or feature?  (Read 2539 times)

Libash_Thunderhead

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Butchery: bug or feature?
« on: March 26, 2016, 09:10:22 am »

The wiki page:

Bugs
A dead tame animal that was not slaughtered cannot be butchered.Bug:1180 This includes tame animals killed due to age, starvation or due to goblins.
Dwarves will not disassemble (butcher) skeletons of sentient creatures for their bones.Bug:1180
Some animals can be too small to be butchered, such as buzzards, rabbits, and barn owls.Bug:0874

I can understand the first one, maybe the third one, but the second line doesn't sound like a bug to me.
Logged

NJW2000

  • Bay Watcher
  • You know me. What do I know?
    • View Profile
Re: Butchery: bug or feature?
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2016, 09:12:52 am »

Well, they will use pre-dissembled bones in artifacts, if, say, a gobbo loses an arm somewhere down the line, and it rots. So maybe there's a slight misunderstanding there. But I was under the impression that dwarves were against the use of sapients as raw material.

Logged
One wheel short of a wagon

steel jackal

  • Bay Watcher
  • [UNIQUE_DEMON]
    • View Profile
Re: Butchery: bug or feature?
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2016, 09:47:43 am »

Well, they will use pre-dissembled bones in artifacts, if, say, a gobbo loses an arm somewhere down the line, and it rots. So maybe there's a slight misunderstanding there. But I was under the impression that dwarves were against the use of sapients as raw material.
im pretty sure they are against it, however ive heard of people using elf bone bolts to kill elves, so there might be some work around/bug to it
Logged
i am a dwarf and im digging a hole, diggy diggy hole

my art: http://www.furaffinity.net/gallery/tylerrobotnik/

timotheos

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Butchery: bug or feature?
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2016, 09:55:05 am »

The bug seems to be that they will use the sentient bones. Dwarf ethics should stop both butchery and crafting.
Logged

SebasMarolo

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Butchery: bug or feature?
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2016, 10:00:23 am »

Well, they will use pre-dissembled bones in artifacts, if, say, a gobbo loses an arm somewhere down the line, and it rots. So maybe there's a slight misunderstanding there. But I was under the impression that dwarves were against the use of sapients as raw material.

I'm thinking of a raising chamber next to a trap room packed full with axes and stuff, to keep raising and severing the corpses to get as many bones as possible, just to make mugs out of the skulls of goblins and elfs.

welp, it happened, I became a dwarf.
Logged
So uh, yeah you just murdered a until proven otherwise pretty neutral innocent being for no reason.

NJW2000

  • Bay Watcher
  • You know me. What do I know?
    • View Profile
Re: Butchery: bug or feature?
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2016, 10:06:00 am »

 :D

I think spinning glass circular saws might be best and cheapest, but don't know much about weapon design. Giantwooden axes = very budget, but not ineffective, especially against the unarmoured. Or steel stuff, if you have a really highly productive fort.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 03:47:21 am by NJW2000 »
Logged
One wheel short of a wagon

PatrikLundell

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Butchery: bug or feature?
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2016, 12:36:32 pm »

In 0.40.X you could craft items out of sapient bones butchered "naturally", such as the bones released by the decay of a severed leg, with the exception of dwarven ones, which weren't touched. In 0.42.X no sapient bones are used at all. I suspect this is a side effect of moving all sapient body parts to the corpse stockpile category, which previously was used only for dwarves (and it's used for pets as well in 0.42.X, by the way).
I haven't investigated if "naturally" butchered pet parts are used for crafting in either 0.40.X or 0.42.X, though.
Logged

martinuzz

  • Bay Watcher
  • High dwarf
    • View Profile
Re: Butchery: bug or feature?
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2016, 04:12:59 pm »

The wiki page:

Bugs
A dead tame animal that was not slaughtered cannot be butchered.Bug:1180 This includes tame animals killed due to age, starvation or due to goblins.
Dwarves will not disassemble (butcher) skeletons of sentient creatures for their bones.Bug:1180
Some animals can be too small to be butchered, such as buzzards, rabbits, and barn owls.Bug:0874

I can understand the first one, maybe the third one, but the second line doesn't sound like a bug to me.
Which is why, when you want to know about bugs, you look at the bug tracker, and not at the wiki
Logged
Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

Shonai_Dweller

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Butchery: bug or feature?
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2016, 10:10:43 pm »

The wiki page:

Bugs
A dead tame animal that was not slaughtered cannot be butchered.Bug:1180 This includes tame animals killed due to age, starvation or due to goblins.
Dwarves will not disassemble (butcher) skeletons of sentient creatures for their bones.Bug:1180
Some animals can be too small to be butchered, such as buzzards, rabbits, and barn owls.Bug:0874

I can understand the first one, maybe the third one, but the second line doesn't sound like a bug to me.
Which is why, when you want to know about bugs, you look at the bug tracker, and not at the wiki
Not being able to butcher sentient bones is marked as a  "confirmed" bug and "open" on the bug tracker (following the link from the wiki). Probably should be closed as it's WAD as far as I can tell.
Logged

Pirate Santa

  • Bay Watcher
  • [CURIOUSBEAST_EATER]
    • View Profile
Re: Butchery: bug or feature?
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2016, 08:58:02 pm »

Go to raws, find "entity_default".
Under [ENTITY:MOUNTAIN], scroll down to ethics section.

Relevant part:
[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_OTHER:UNTHINKABLE]
   [ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:UNTHINKABLE]
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAME_RACE:APPALLING]
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAPIENT:SHUN]
   [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE]

This tells the game that dwarves are forbidden from using sapient body parts in cooking or crafting.
If you want to use sapient parts just change the line to "ACCEPTABLE".
Eg. [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAPIENT:ACCEPTABLE]

For the curious:
Spoiler: Elves (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Humans (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Goblins (click to show/hide)
Logged
Welcome to Dwarf Fortress. Where peaceful death of old age is something nobody sees coming.
it turns out Dog Bone Doctors aren't very good at doctoring.

Saiko Kila

  • Bay Watcher
  • Dwarven alchemist
    • View Profile
Re: Butchery: bug or feature?
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2016, 09:20:35 am »

My dwarves (42.06) don't butcher dead elves and goblins' skeletons (I mean by "Butcher a dead animal" task), but they are happy to make instruments, bolts and other crafts out of bones created by traps. Some bones go to refuse/body parts and refuse/corpses stockpile. These won't be used (probably). Some bones go to refuse/bones and refuse/skulls. They are used normally, no matter goblin or elf. Maybe there's some bug here? I remember this was always (long time) the case, however, so see no real difference to older versions.

I'm still waiting for goblin visitors to come and comment on the exquisite stationary instruments made from goblin bone. Or an elf one. Unfortunately only dwarves visit me currently.
Logged

PatrikLundell

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Butchery: bug or feature?
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2016, 11:55:28 am »

My dwarves (42.06) don't butcher dead elves and goblins' skeletons (I mean by "Butcher a dead animal" task), but they are happy to make instruments, bolts and other crafts out of bones created by traps. Some bones go to refuse/body parts and refuse/corpses stockpile. These won't be used (probably). Some bones go to refuse/bones and refuse/skulls. They are used normally, no matter goblin or elf. Maybe there's some bug here? I remember this was always (long time) the case, however, so see no real difference to older versions.

I'm still waiting for goblin visitors to come and comment on the exquisite stationary instruments made from goblin bone. Or an elf one. Unfortunately only dwarves visit me currently.
Your description matches the 0.40.24 behavior, but not the 0.42.X one. In 0.42.X sapient bodies and body parts don't go into the refuse stockpile ('p'-'r'), but into the corpse stockpile ('p'-y'). Since you've got an instrument you can't have upgraded a 0.40.24 save, though. Are any mods in play (possibly involving what Pirate Santa said)?
Logged

Saiko Kila

  • Bay Watcher
  • Dwarven alchemist
    • View Profile
Re: Butchery: bug or feature?
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2016, 02:42:10 pm »

My dwarves (42.06) don't butcher dead elves and goblins' skeletons (I mean by "Butcher a dead animal" task), but they are happy to make instruments, bolts and other crafts out of bones created by traps. Some bones go to refuse/body parts and refuse/corpses stockpile. These won't be used (probably). Some bones go to refuse/bones and refuse/skulls. They are used normally, no matter goblin or elf. Maybe there's some bug here? I remember this was always (long time) the case, however, so see no real difference to older versions.

I'm still waiting for goblin visitors to come and comment on the exquisite stationary instruments made from goblin bone. Or an elf one. Unfortunately only dwarves visit me currently.
Your description matches the 0.40.24 behavior, but not the 0.42.X one. In 0.42.X sapient bodies and body parts don't go into the refuse stockpile ('p'-'r'), but into the corpse stockpile ('p'-y'). Since you've got an instrument you can't have upgraded a 0.40.24 save, though. Are any mods in play (possibly involving what Pirate Santa said)?

No mods (other than gfx pack), and the world was created in 0.42.06, but other factor may be at play: my elves and goblins are undead. No live goblins were stupid enough to enter my traps, only zombies. Zombies may be not treated as "sapient", though they are correctly segregated to their racial stockpiles. Caged ones count as "goblins" and "elves", and their "craftable" bones count as, well, Bones (Refuse/Bones). As opposed to "uncraftable" bones, which count either as Corpses or Refuse/Corpses+Body Parts (cant's say which ones, because I use the same stockpile for them).
Logged

PatrikLundell

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Butchery: bug or feature?
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2016, 04:27:33 pm »

Hm, interesting. It's been noted undead are treated differently from their live sapient counterparts in that they can be pitted, while the sapient pitting bug makes that impossible for live ones (in 0.40.24 only dwarves, live and undead alike, where unpittable). If bones of sapient undead go into the regular refuse stockpile it would make sense that they'd also yield craftable bones, although I would consider the difference to be a bug (allowing the past merperson bone farms I've heard of possible by post processing the bodies by a necromancer).
In 0.40.24 neither elves nor humans had any problems with buying crafts made out of bones of the own race, so I don't think that would have changed.

Another thing that might be interesting to check is if the bodies of undead sapients results in horrified thoughts in sensitive haulers. That might be a bit hard to check since 0.42.X reduced the sensitivity very significantly from affecting almost every dorf to affecting only a small number. Bone stacks were dehorrified in 0.40.24, so I'd expect that to remain.
Logged

Saiko Kila

  • Bay Watcher
  • Dwarven alchemist
    • View Profile
Re: Butchery: bug or feature?
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2016, 02:42:40 am »

I cannot find a sensitive hauler. Even the miner who killed a cyclops (I don't have military yet) was more interested in nearby trap than the death of the fellow sapient. None of the haulers so far were moved by dead undead goblins/elves, they don't feel anything seeing a goblin/elf/cyclops die.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2