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IF YOU COULD VOTE TO LEAVE OR REMAIN WITHIN THE EUROPEAN UNION AS A SUBJECT OF HRH (PBUH) WITH PERMANENT RESIDENCE IN THE UK OR CITIZENSHIP ABROAD, HOW WOULD YOU VOTE?

FUCK YES LET'S LEAVE GET HYPE YEY
Casual yes, let's leave and get independence done with
Meh, probably just scribble all over my vote ballot to spite tryhards
Casual no, let's remain and get integration done with
FUCK NO LET'S REMAIN GET CALM YEY

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Author Topic: Breeki British Brexit thread  (Read 155379 times)

scriver

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Re: Breeki British Brexit thread
« Reply #1485 on: June 28, 2016, 09:27:16 am »

There are no jobs in Sweden for non-swedish-speaking, skilless and/or educationless, and in many times analphabetic people. Those few such jobs there is would also be shared with the large population of Swedish speaking skilless and/or educationless people (of both eedieh and immigrant backgrounds) that are already in Sweden and unemployed.

Well obviously the two year assimilation process involves teaching them enough Swedish to get along in contemporary society.

As for jobs, I didn't know that the Swedish education system was so horrible that they have a huge glut of low skilled labor.  I am disappointed Sweden.

Both. Mostly houses, I suspect, though.

There are 18.5 million empty homes in the United States right now.  We could easily house 3.7 million refugees and all are homeless if we gave a shit.  And we do have the ability to build more.  We can't build more land in cities for people to compete for while wishing rent didn't follow the laws of supply and demand but physical structures are quite easy.

It's so sad.  This isn't the country that went to the moon.  You say something that is clearly achievable and people say it's impossible because it would take effort.  Is taking effort impossible anymore?

I would suggest that you guys consider the Muriel boatlift.  Over 100,000 refugees dumped in south Florida with very little preparation and no clue what's going on.  Many of them lacked language skills.  Low wage workers weren't hurt at all.  If Miami can handle Muriel then Sweden can easily handle a few hundred thousand.

Man, I wish I lived I'm the same world as you where just dismissing problems make them not problems any more.
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Dorsidwarf

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Re: Breeki British Brexit thread
« Reply #1486 on: June 28, 2016, 09:39:57 am »

So brexit roundup:

1) People who openly declared they would fight for a second referendum if Leave lost narrowly deny ever saying so when Remain loses narrowly.

2) People who voted Brexit angry that the EU didn't honor UK politicians promise to "sort something out before initiating leaving", "negotiating on firmer grounds" or anything, in fact, before we actually begin leaving.

3) Pro-Brexit politicians suddenly turn around, put hands in pockets, and whistle when asked about all those huge campaign statements that won them the Leave

4) Pro-Leavers refuse to accept that they lost and want a do-over (That's not how a referedum works, wankstains)

5) It comes out that "taking back control" actually means "Business as usual but no Brussels to blame" when it comes to important issues like fishing quotas.

6) Everyone is worse off, hurrah!

7) But at least we got rid of Dave. Wait no the alternatives are Bogus Boris and Iron Wall May
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Rolepgeek

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Re: Breeki British Brexit thread
« Reply #1487 on: June 28, 2016, 09:48:43 am »

Hold a referendum on whether or not a second referendum should be held.

Absolutely nothing can go wrong
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scrdest

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Re: Breeki British Brexit thread
« Reply #1488 on: June 28, 2016, 09:56:11 am »

Hold a referendum on whether or not a second referendum should be held.

Absolutely nothing can go wrong
Too controversial. Need some way to establish whether people would agree to such a referendum. Hm...
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Harry Baldman

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Re: Breeki British Brexit thread
« Reply #1489 on: June 28, 2016, 10:01:01 am »

Too controversial. Need some way to establish whether people would agree to such a referendum. Hm...

Draft an online petition to raise enough signatures to bring before Parliament the matter of starting an online petition to bring a referendum on getting a referendum about getting another Brexit referendum.
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Leafsnail

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Re: Breeki British Brexit thread
« Reply #1490 on: June 28, 2016, 10:13:12 am »

So brexit roundup:

1) People who openly declared they would fight for a second referendum if Leave lost narrowly deny ever saying so when Remain loses narrowly.

2) People who voted Brexit angry that the EU didn't honor UK politicians promise to "sort something out before initiating leaving", "negotiating on firmer grounds" or anything, in fact, before we actually begin leaving.

3) Pro-Brexit politicians suddenly turn around, put hands in pockets, and whistle when asked about all those huge campaign statements that won them the Leave

4) Pro-Leavers refuse to accept that they lost and want a do-over (That's not how a referedum works, wankstains)

5) It comes out that "taking back control" actually means "Business as usual but no Brussels to blame" when it comes to important issues like fishing quotas.

6) Everyone is worse off, hurrah!

7) But at least we got rid of Dave. Wait no the alternatives are Bogus Boris and Iron Wall May
I don't understand 4). All the other points make a very good case for having a second referendum, and there's nothing stopping us from doing it. Heck, trying to push the result through would cause problems because it will involve trampling over Scotland and NI's devolved powers.
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Rolepgeek

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Re: Breeki British Brexit thread
« Reply #1491 on: June 28, 2016, 10:18:40 am »

Too controversial. Need some way to establish whether people would agree to such a referendum. Hm...

Draft an online petition to raise enough signatures to bring before Parliament the matter of starting an online petition to bring a referendum on getting a referendum about getting another Brexit referendum.
It's just bureaucratic enough to work!
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LoSboccacc

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Re: Breeki British Brexit thread
« Reply #1492 on: June 28, 2016, 10:21:43 am »

Quote
All the other points make a very good case for having a second referendum


all voters that wanted to listen already knew the claims were bunk, and the gullible hadn't got enlightened in the last week - wouldn't bet in regrexiters to make a dent.

the only significant swing might come from those who didn't vote, there's quite a large pool there of unknown preference.

But here's the thing. Why wouldn't Scottish vote to leave, if that'd helped their independence? ditto for Northerner Irelanders.

Situation is complex, and often politics defy logic.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 10:23:44 am by LoSboccacc »
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sluissa

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Re: Breeki British Brexit thread
« Reply #1493 on: June 28, 2016, 10:26:16 am »

What would be the legality of the queen stepping up and taking over?

I haven't heard much from that end of the government considering the whole thing is threatening to fall apart.
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Frumple

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Re: Breeki British Brexit thread
« Reply #1494 on: June 28, 2016, 10:33:04 am »

Oh hey, Corbyn lost the no confidence vote.
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Breeki British Brexit thread
« Reply #1495 on: June 28, 2016, 10:34:59 am »

But here's the thing. Why wouldn't Scottish vote to leave, if that'd helped their independence? ditto for Northerner Irelanders.
Because then they'd have to negotiate their accession to the EU - it's not a quick process, and all the fun concessions UK got over the years would be off the table. AFAIK one of the arguments for Scotland not leaving the UK was that it meant staying in the EU.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Breeki British Brexit thread
« Reply #1496 on: June 28, 2016, 10:35:19 am »

Holding a second referendum on the basis that the result was a non-supermajority against their wishes is one of those nakedly self-serving things against the spirit of the whole concept. It's much like all the people who whine that the "definition of censorship is only government action" when views they disagree with are suppressed.

Disgusting hypocrisy.
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palsch

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Re: Breeki British Brexit thread
« Reply #1497 on: June 28, 2016, 10:36:14 am »

What would be the legality of the queen stepping up and taking over?

I haven't heard much from that end of the government considering the whole thing is threatening to fall apart.
Legally iffy. The UK's constitution is not codified. It is a mix of scattered legislation (no-one is sure of a count, but possibly up to 25 different laws make up it) and constitutional conventions that may not be legally binding but would be testable in court if violated by anyone other than Parliament. The royal prerogative is largely convention, and exercises of it in terms of foreign relations have been challenged in court in the past, with mixed results.

So, eh.

Oh hey, Corbyn lost the no confidence vote.
Yep. Now time to look up the rules that govern how to trigger an actual leadership election in Labour (oddly the confidence vote isn't enough...). Watch for the whips resigning.


David Allen Green has been clarifying the ways in which Cameron can't accidentally invoke Article 50. Some are golden.
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mainiac

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Re: Breeki British Brexit thread
« Reply #1498 on: June 28, 2016, 10:36:43 am »

God forbid we call anyone closeminded. It would just be rewriting society to let in immigrants. Sure our jobs and homes would be virtually unchanged and we would probably be wealthier but somehow it is rewriting society.
How fucking exactly do we manage all this without changing anything? No seriously, what the bloody fuck is your magic bullet to apparently make people wealthier and more accepting of others while not undergoing enormous societal change? Cuz y'know there are QUITE A FEW GOVERNMENTS that could sorely use your advice Mr. HasAllTheAnswers

Right now we have a system where immigrants come in, attend classes and get jobs to pay for homes. In what way is this system not capable of handling more people? We would need a few more ESL teachers I suppose. We would need to expand existing screening. I don't consider those complex changes.

If they want mosques and shit they can figure that part out. We just need to let them in and give them access to Craigslist apartments classifieds. The great thing about making the whole economy decentralized is you don't micromanage where people live and work.
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RedKing

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Re: Breeki British Brexit thread
« Reply #1499 on: June 28, 2016, 10:36:56 am »

There are no jobs in Sweden for non-swedish-speaking, skilless and/or educationless, and in many times analphabetic people. Those few such jobs there is would also be shared with the large population of Swedish speaking skilless and/or educationless people (of both eedieh and immigrant backgrounds) that are already in Sweden and unemployed.

Well obviously the two year assimilation process involves teaching them enough Swedish to get along in contemporary society.

As for jobs, I didn't know that the Swedish education system was so horrible that they have a huge glut of low skilled labor.  I am disappointed Sweden.

Both. Mostly houses, I suspect, though.

There are 18.5 million empty homes in the United States right now.  We could easily house 3.7 million refugees and all are homeless if we gave a shit.  And we do have the ability to build more.  We can't build more land in cities for people to compete for while wishing rent didn't follow the laws of supply and demand but physical structures are quite easy.

It's so sad.  This isn't the country that went to the moon.  You say something that is clearly achievable and people say it's impossible because it would take effort.  Is taking effort impossible anymore?

I would suggest that you guys consider the Muriel boatlift.  Over 100,000 refugees dumped in south Florida with very little preparation and no clue what's going on.  Many of them lacked language skills.  Low wage workers weren't hurt at all.  If Miami can handle Muriel then Sweden can easily handle a few hundred thousand.

Man, I wish I lived I'm the same world as you where just dismissing problems make them not problems any more.
So here's my problem with that idea -- we have 11 million people in the US now spending half or more of their income on rent, and you're going to just give empty houses to immigrants? Yeah, that'll go over like a lead balloon.

Those houses, like it or not, belong to somebody (typically banks) who are owed a not-insubstantial amount of money on them. So there's a couple of ways this could go down, none of them bloody likely:

1. US gov't claims eminent domain, seizes all the houses and gives them for free to people. While I might actually be onboard with this if first claims went to Americans without houses, it's problematic in the extreme and would provoke a hue and a cry of Communism.

2. US gov't uses taxpayer dollars to buy the houses and give them for free to people. Less Communist, still controversial in the extreme and still not supportable unless Americans get first crack at the houses.

3. US gov't uses taxpayer dollars to subsidize rent/mortgage payments for these houses. This is more reasonable, though still quite expensive. And again, if Americans don't get first crack at the the houses, you have a significant nativist backlash. Hell, even I think that's unfair.

The problem isn't a shortage of housing, it's a shortage of affordable housing. We're seeing this in the Triangle, where new condos and mixed-use development are springing up like weeds and all them start in the $200K range and up. Nobody builds cheap "starter homes" anymore in thriving cities, because that's not where the profit is. SO you wind up with cities where the rich can live downtown (unintentionally pushing out the poor who traditionally dwelled there through sheer force of gentrification and property value) and the middle-class get priced out to the hinterlands where they all have an hour+ commute back into the cities.

So what you're proposing is giving (or subsidizing or whatever) immigrants either:
1. A fancy condo in a posh, urban location. That'll go over well with folks still living in a trailer or a crappy rental.
2. Shitty housing which is three hours from anywhere and likely condemned. Which puts them far from refugee assistance services and NGOs.


More to the point, the US just doesn't do this kind of organized, structural integration. Our model for absorbing immigrants has always been let them in, let them find work, let them compete in the general market for housing, food, etc. We don't even force anyone to learn English, it's more of a natural pressure in that you're gonna have a hard time if you don't. Spanish has become the exception to this rule, because there are now a large enough critical mass of Spanish-speakers and businesses and services that are bilingual or Spanish-only.


So yeah....housing is a problem in the US, and in most of Europe as well. Saying that it shouldn't be doesn't remove that fact. It's like saying famine isn't a problem because there's enough global food production to feed everyone. The devil is in the details.

"There has to be reasonable immigration controls" != "Round everyone up and put them on a boat".


EDIT: Craigslist? Seriously? There's this little problem where you need food and a place to sleep, while you look for a place to sleep and a job. To pay for the place to sleep. Which most people won't rent to you. Without a job. Losing any one of those typically puts the other two at risk. Trying to find all three on your own, even if you KNOW the language and culture, is fucking nightmarish.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 10:41:42 am by RedKing »
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