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FUCK YES LET'S LEAVE GET HYPE YEY

Casual yes, let's leave and get independence done with

Meh, probably just scribble all over my vote ballot to spite tryhards

Casual no, let's remain and get integration done with

FUCK NO LET'S REMAIN GET CALM YEY

[Orange Wizard]

Economic migrants are generally rejected refugee status anyway. Or, they're supposed to be. It's not a perfect system.

As are people all along the colour spectrum. What's so special about refugees?

They're all muslamic shakira terrists

Do you want Salafists? Because that's how you get Salafists. Rearranging the sand from the air is a useless effort.

The "bomb the Levant until things get better" argument is so asinine I can't even

[palsch]

And anyway, why don't we just build refugee camps in the middle-east, instead of transporting these economic migrants all the way to the first-world?

Not to pile on excessively, but we have. Turkey and Iraqi Kurdistan hold the majority of the refugees in camps, with nearly 2 million in camps in Turkey alone (the total numbers are far higher). The only bordering nation that doesn't have at least one camp listed there is Israel. One camp in Jordan has been listed as their fourth largest city. Estimates put the cost of refugees at 6% of Jordan's GDP

And not all camps are all that safe.

[Orange Wizard]

Refugee camps are pretty darn unsafe on the scale of things. Better than a warzone, but that's not a particularly high bar.

[palsch]

Jeremy Hunt is considering running for PM.

He is also calling for a second referendum and not issuing the Article 50 notice till 2020.

So this should be entertaining.

And on the left flank there are rumours of resignations of Labour party whips this morning. The vote of confidence is scheduled for around 4PM UK time. Losing the whips even before the vote would likely be the last straw.

[Cthulhu]

Where's all the John Oliver hate coming from recently? Other than being a nerdier and shrill-er version of John Stewart, and that one thing with buying back people's debts and maybe not crediting the original inventors of the idea.

If you check the video... Basically racism... Like outright... Even check the comments. (as in racists hate him)

You got it man, I don't like John Oliver because his voice clashes with the sounds of my giant ovens heating up.

I don't like him because he's a nerdier and shriller version of John Stewart, Whig History Currentyearism, and the last time a British guy decided to come and tell us how dumb we are it was Piers Morgan and we agreed as a society to tell him to go to hell.

[Neonivek]

Ehh not likely to do the referendum given that there is nothing that allows the UK to deport en masse refuges and migrants.

THAT and the "Leave party" are not going to allow a second referendum knowing that people are very likely to change their minds.

You got it man, I don't like John Oliver because his voice clashes with the sounds of my giant ovens heating up.

I only had that video to go by... and frankly... you would be an outlier

[LoSboccacc]

let's take this magical million refugee number and take it for a spin. first of all, it's not a million refugee among 63 million population, which still'd be significant, because they will try/want to go in the place that gives them the best chances for a job and stability. And since they don't really know the state they're entering, they will try to stick into the major and best known cities.

London (pop: 8mil) will end up with the majority, so now you're looking to quite the cultural shift, even assuming housing is widely available, which introduces the second problem: they will try and stick together. Look around at your city: chances are you have the Chinese quarter, the Italian quarter etc. That's because people in an alien culture will try and stick together, as simple as that, but the effect is twofold: once an area becomes specific, it will start to be unwelcoming to other cultures and a real problem to police. Especially if you don't get those million people a job or other means for living.

At least the first generation will known they have it better, even if they barely manage to live by it's better than being shelled. But in twenty years, you'll get to deal with the second generation, which will grow with the local culture and with wants aligned with the state they're living in. Youth unemployment is a problem, no matter what, even not accounting the second generation will grow with the local culture but face parent level of discrimination. But will they feel unemployment is due the current crisis, or will they feel discriminated against?

Second generation radicalizing is a real problem. Scratch the surface before sensationalist press touting 'the terrorist was Belgian/French/USA' to discard the immigrants problem, and you'll find often a second generation immigrant.




Now the problem is not immigration, you see, the problem is that logistic, housing and integration issues aren't being addressed and haven't been addressed for years, and this is how you end up with gullible population ready to vote for the first nationalistic party claiming to have a solution (even if closing frontiers wouldn't solve the problem in Europe and wouldn't address the problem, only limit and curtail it)

But you try and address those problems, and you get immediately labeled racist ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Neonivek]

At least the first generation will known they have it better, even if they barely manage to live by it's better than being shelled. But in twenty years, you'll get to deal with the second generation, which will grow with the local culture and with wants aligned with the state they're living in. Youth unemployment is a problem, no matter what, even not accounting the second generation will grow with the local culture but face parent level of discrimination. But will they feel unemployment is due the current crisis, or will they feel discriminated against?

So... it is your own fault? That is what it is sounding like.

You are marginalizing and discriminating against them in order to create an environment conducive to crime...

Hey USA do you have any problems with ghettos and a minority population blamed for the majority of crime?
USA: "Shush! I don't want to get involved"

---

Though the reason why you keep getting that "Labled racist" is because you KEEP returning to the same premise of "Foreigners are just inherently worse people" AKA Racism.

"Well you know, they will form cultural ghettos which will create a hotbed of anti-British sentiments that will boil over in crime and terrorism. You know China town? Human trafficking racket"

[Rolepgeek]

Rebels have their war crimes, yeah. But Fuck Assad anyway, and Fuck ISIS too. Like I said, stomp on them and wait until something that isn't godawful horrendous rises from the ashes. People can survive without a government in subsistence societies. Better than they can with a civil war going on, at any rate.

Do you want Salafists? Because that's how you get Salafists. Rearranging the sand from the air is a useless effort.

Yeah, which is why I said fuck airstrikes. We already have goddamn Salafists. That's the bloody problem. Don't bomb them into submission. You get terror cells forming into large-scale army that tries to take over a region? You end it with tanks and ground troops. If they're oppressing local populace, mostly. Ground troops also happen to be better at target specificity. Don't bomb them. Break them. Time and again until it is ingrained into whatever remaining people want to get up in arms about their neighbors giving praise to God wrong that you don't get to kill them for it. If you do, the Westerners will free them. And if they try to do it to you, the Westerners will free you. Wait for them to coalesce, hit them hard to take out as much of the upper ranks as possible, in particular. Repeat as necessary.

[Neonivek]

I REALLY got to stay out of this topic >_<

The UK is going to have to deal with its own problems, it isn't my problem.

I just kind of wish something REALLY bad would happen (though harmlessly) just so they would actually have to do something instead of this pissy run around contests.

This 50/50 crud is somehow worse then just having a terrible country. At least I know where I stand with other countries

[LoSboccacc]

At least the first generation will known they have it better, even if they barely manage to live by it's better than being shelled. But in twenty years, you'll get to deal with the second generation, which will grow with the local culture and with wants aligned with the state they're living in. Youth unemployment is a problem, no matter what, even not accounting the second generation will grow with the local culture but face parent level of discrimination. But will they feel unemployment is due the current crisis, or will they feel discriminated against?

So... it is your own fault? That is what it is sounding like.

You are marginalizing and discriminating against them in order to create an environment conducive to crime...

Hey USA do you have any problems with ghettos and a minority population blamed for the majority of crime?
USA: "Shush! I don't want to get involved"

---

Though the reason why you keep getting that "Labled racist" is because you KEEP returning to the same premise of "Foreigners are just inherently worse people" AKA Racism.

"Well you know, they will form cultural ghettos which will create a hotbed of anti-British sentiments that will boil over in crime and terrorism. You know China town? Human trafficking racket"

Yes what happens within a country at that scale is the country fault. Whose fault should be? Refugees are just running away from their horror. People is just people, and get at most a vote, they don't do policy nor are expected to. The state should be the one trying to organize the integration, but you only get them talk about camps or closing frontiers, neither of which had ever worked.

[Baffler]

Yeah, which is why I said fuck airstrikes. We already have goddamn Salafists. That's the bloody problem. Don't bomb them into submission. You get terror cells forming into large-scale army that tries to take over a region? You end it with tanks and ground troops. If they're oppressing local populace, mostly. Ground troops also happen to be better at target specificity. Don't bomb them. Break them. Time and again until it is ingrained into whatever remaining people want to get up in arms about their neighbors giving praise to God wrong that you don't get to kill them for it. If you do, the Westerners will free them. And if they try to do it to you, the Westerners will free you. Wait for them to coalesce, hit them hard to take out as much of the upper ranks as possible, in particular. Repeat as necessary.

Oh I see, you're calling for an invasion and followup genocide until the only people left alive are the ones terrified into becoming toleran an progresiv like you. That there's a whole different animal, and not really one I care to engage with.

[Morrigi]

It's not genocide if the only people you kill are the ones trying to kill you and kill civilians. That's generally just known as war, and there is a case for a ground war with the so-called Islamic State, but I wouldn't trust our politicians to carry it out competently.

[Baffler]

It's not genocide if the only people you kill are the ones trying to kill you.

See the invasion part. I'm not sure how "invade them and use unlimited force to enforce our values on them" doesn't justify resistance. If Middle Eastern adventurism has taught us anything so far, it's that invading a country, toppling the government, enforcing foreign values, and killing anyone who tries to stop you doesn't help anyone but the guy making all the bullets and body bags.

[Rolepgeek]

It's not genocide if the only people you kill are the ones trying to kill you.

See the invasion part. I'm not sure how "invade them and use unlimited force to enforce our values on them" doesn't justify resistance. If Middle Eastern adventurism has taught us anything so far, it's that invading a country, toppling the government, enforcing foreign values, and killing anyone who tries to stop you doesn't help anyone but the guy making all the bullets and body bags.

You invade, you withdraw when you've broken the warlord. Like shattered broken. You go fast and hard and then you pull out. You don't stick around like an unwanted guest and outstay your welcome. My gratitude for a stranger will rapidly wear thin if they decide to crash on the couch for a week after saving me from a robber.

You let them build their government, so long as it isn't utterly horrible to the people it's meant to govern. If that means Shariah law and the people there are on board with it and allowed to leave when they aren't, that's fine. If it means Marxism has a new cultural center, great, whatever. Point is to stop the atrocities.