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FUCK YES LET'S LEAVE GET HYPE YEY

Casual yes, let's leave and get independence done with

Meh, probably just scribble all over my vote ballot to spite tryhards

Casual no, let's remain and get integration done with

FUCK NO LET'S REMAIN GET CALM YEY

[mainiac]

America and NATO are on the precipice of losing technological overwatch against Russia and China. The PAK and J20 5th generation fighters are going to be damn close to the F22 at a significantly smaller price, plus they haven't shuttered the production lines.

Because the F22 is an experimental platform full of all the new toys that they wanted to test out.  I think that it's inefficient and wish that we had gone for a Eurofighter like platform but it does mean that now we have experience testing out all the fancy crap.  If anything the F22 is an example of thinking too obsessively about future hypothetical threats and spending too much on readiness for conflicts that might happen decades in the future.

The A3 is going to be the king of the tanks, but the Abrams is still a platform older than I am. Russians and Chinese get super great discounts in everything they do because the US pumps money into R&D, then the developments always sink into other's knowledge bases.

So what if the platform is old?  If they started over from scratch they would end up with something nearly identical to the current version. (assuming they went with BEST TANK EVAR and not a lower cost platform).  It's not the original production line.  They have gone so overboard on modernizing them that the average tank is under two years.  If the US decided to switch over to a Leopard style powerplant or something, we'd just call it the A4.

Yeah, we still have the greatest logistic expertise, Navy, and special operations apparatus in the world, but those won't last forever, especially if Pax Americana ends with a war against one or the other. After the US wins, we get to ape post WW2 England and watch the country that wasn't totally invested rise up top.

The US surpassed England before WWII.  And honestly history since WWII has been very kind to the UK.  They've had 70 years of peace and security interrupted mostly by the times they stuck their nose where it didn't belong.

But the bigger point is that this is not an emerging threat: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/russia/gdp-growth
And I think that the situation in Asia is defined in the long term by this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I definitely sympathize with people that missed the memo on the China slowdown.  I do not mean that in the sarcastic sense.  People have been predicting this slowdown for FOREVER.  It really is completely understandable that it might seem like a stopped clock thing and be overlooked.  But it seems like it's really happening.

[PTTG??]

I mean, I want to blame Cameron, but he's just the guy who started the vote. The real villains here were the ignorant rural people, who are largely responsible for supporting for most of the worst governments in history.

[Strife26]

Yeah, sorry. Not libertarian in the modern alt-right-only American sense, more the general. Surprisingly, Wikipedia actually does a decent job of giving a general breakdown. The core uniting factor is a primary concern with personal liberty, nothing more or less.

Yeah, that seems strange to me from the perspective of a socialist society.


Loud Whispers: you should totally update the poll.
The victory of Brexit will result in the destruction of which of the following?
Britain
The UK
The Commonwealth
The EU
Western Civilization
Human Civilization
The post USSR peace
England's economy
The EU's economy
The global economy
Financial markets
The Internet
Cornwall

[MetalSlimeHunt]

- Baryonic Matter

[Guardian G.I.]

Not even Russian state media can fully understand what's going on in the UK right now. For example, this opinion article on Ria.ru claims that Westminster and Brussels will force a re-run of the referendum with more convenient "Remain" outcome, because the Eurobureaucrats did the same with Denmark's Maastricht treaty referendum in 1992, Ireland's Lisbon treaty referendum in 2008, and because this simply can't be left hanging like this. No, no, no, this can't be happening, period.

..."Cameron can theoretically start a 'second round' of negotiations with Brussels, negotiating a 'wider autonomy'. Since the results of the referendum have no direct legal consequences, it will provide a possibility of a second referendum that would preserve Britain in EU".

That's just one of the variants. And I'm sure many of them will be drawn up. Because some things are simply implausible.

A far-right politician can't be the president of Austria - and just a few weeks ago we saw how Austrian politicians, with the help of mysterious manipulations, took away 0.3% from Norbert Hofer.

Donald Trump can't be the president of the USA - and you'll see, he won't become one. Great Britain can't leave the EU. And believe me, it won't.

The opinion of British citizens will be declared 'recommendatory', mistaken, irresponsible, insane, senile, whatever - but not the one that should be followed. Because the politicians always know better than the citizens.

[...]

Democracy is not for peasants. Democracy is for the elite.

[Loud Whispers]

I mean, I want to blame Cameron, but he's just the guy who started the vote. The real villains here were the ignorant rural people, who are largely responsible for supporting for most of the worst governments in history.

Those dastardly ignorant rural villains, detesting being treated like scum

There's also the option that the people are mentally ill and incapable of rational decision making. Pretty sure most nations don't allow the clinically insane to vote.

But where does political dissident end and clinically insane start? 'Insane asylum' has more than once been used as a euphemism for political prison camp.

China did this in the millions

MILLIONS

China doesn't half arse this stuff

[Jopax]

So, uh, this is a thing apparently: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/eu-presidency-due-to-rotate-to-uk-in-2017-1.2698739?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

wat

[EnigmaticHat]

Yeah, sorry. Not libertarian in the modern alt-right-only American sense, more the general. Surprisingly, Wikipedia actually does a decent job of giving a general breakdown. The core uniting factor is a primary concern with personal liberty, nothing more or less.

So what I'm hearing here is that, at least in terms of rhetoric/lip service, BOTH American parties are libertarian.

I mean, I want to blame Cameron, but he's just the guy who started the vote. The real villains here were the ignorant rural people, who are largely responsible for supporting for most of the worst governments in history.

Sorry, did you say "people over 49?"

[martinuzz]

So, uh, this is a thing apparently: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/eu-presidency-due-to-rotate-to-uk-in-2017-1.2698739?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

wat

Yeah, they'll have to figure out what to do with that. Perhaps they'll let us Dutch keep it for a while longer than the current term to facilitate a transition.

[Frumple]

I mean, I want to blame Cameron, but he's just the guy who started the vote. The real villains here were the ignorant rural people, who are largely responsible for supporting for most of the worst governments in history.

Yes, so let's disenfranchise folks because they aren't "smart enough".

What other conclusion are you trying to draw here?

Maybe just advocating for better education investment? The word was ignorant, not stupid. Or at least more effort in making sure people are actually getting legit information and whatnot.

[da_nang]

Dear god, the butthurt is overwhelming on the internet (supposedly due to voter age divide).

The EU is throwing a hissy fit because a member dared question the FURSSSE agenda and wanted to reconsider the membership of the country and the UK is practically reaching a state of civil war.

[Loud Whispers]

So, uh, this is a thing apparently: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/eu-presidency-due-to-rotate-to-uk-in-2017-1.2698739?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

wat

wat

Maybe just advocating for better education investment? The word was ignorant, not stupid. Or at least more effort in making sure people are actually getting legit information and whatnot.

Educating people into the right choices has never gone wrong before

[Strife26]

Mainiac:

We're not going to see a replacement for the current air superiority mix for some time, flawed as it is, air dominance is what the Raptor was made for. The future hypothetical is what matters, the US is vastly superior to everyone else, but that's on a down slide that's scarily steep.

There's no reason to redesign the American tank, yes. Not worth the money it'd take, but I'd bet that if we were to go for it, it'd result in a very different vehicle, probably with an unmanned turret.

Give me a good platoon and four Abrams and I'll kill a battalion of T-72's.

If the opposition is fielding something like a mature Armata? I'll take a platoon to fight a company of Sovs, but I wouldn't bet too much more than my life on the odds.

[Strife26]

Yeah, sorry. Not libertarian in the modern alt-right-only American sense, more the general. Surprisingly, Wikipedia actually does a decent job of giving a general breakdown. The core uniting factor is a primary concern with personal liberty, nothing more or less.

So what I'm hearing here is that, at least in terms of rhetoric/lip service, BOTH American parties are libertarian.

The only people who don't pay lip service to libertarian ideals are the "THINK OF THE CHILDRUN/FEELZ"  crowds, and they have to employ really fun logic not to make the stomping on the libertarian stuffs obvious.

[Kot]

The victory of Brexit will result in the destruction of which of the following?

Forgot Poland.