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FUCK YES LET'S LEAVE GET HYPE YEY

Casual yes, let's leave and get independence done with

Meh, probably just scribble all over my vote ballot to spite tryhards

Casual no, let's remain and get integration done with

FUCK NO LET'S REMAIN GET CALM YEY

[mainiac]

BRIC is an acronym made by some banker looking to sell stocks. I mean, the economies of Russia and China don't have much in common, like, at all.

Both have abnormally large manufacturing sectors that are heavily subsidized.

But more importantly, both have enormous growth potential.

[Harry Baldman]

I think first-world, second-world and third-world might be useful terms because it's a good indicator of economic background. Just because the Cold War's essentially done doesn't mean it didn't have broad-reaching implications on the countries involved.

A second-world country is one that's transitioned from totalitarian socialism into modern-day capitalism, which is reflected in the landscape, political situation and overall outlook on things. The second world after the nineties seems to have fallen into a pattern of trying to adapt to first-world standards to varying degrees of success (for instance, the Baltics, Georgia, Ukraine, maybe China?) or try and reform their old alliances into Russia 2.0 (like Russia, Belarus, not sure about the other Caucasus nations).

Though that still means that third-world, just as it originally did, just means "unaffiliated and varied countries implied to be irrelevant in this situation" and isn't an indicator of any particular background apart from "currently a developing country".

I don't think we're quite far enough from the Cold War for the world divisions to be completely irrelevant, though even now they can probably be misleading as to what's actually happening, such as implying that any place outside of Europe, the U.S., Canada, Japan, the Warsaw Pact countries and probably some other ones is all military juntas, civil war and horrible economic inequality, even if those may be a significant reoccurring element.

[Orange Wizard]

Both have abnormally large manufacturing sectors that are heavily subsidized.

I'm kind of wondering what's going to happen to China once the current modernisation project starts wrapping up. Russia on the other hand mostly just needs fewer sanctions and a slightly less regressive government and it'll be flying away.

[Vilanat]

What's good about Russia that makes it above being "third-world"?

The fact that NATO, the #1 military alliance on the planet and by a large margin, the strongest first-world military organization, plans to increase it's forces in Europe to counter Russia, because Russia is still seen as a threat to the "first-world"?

I mean, really. Third-world countries are not threats to the first-world. They get bombed by peace-time non-mobilized armed forces very easily. But Russia? "Oh no our armed forces are insufficient and unprepared, we need MOAR funding, much much more".

So you got that going for you, kudos, but how is that helping your day to day life, i admit that's beyond me.

Also, i can think of at least three other non western countries that are not a military threat to the 1st world countries and which are quite far more developed than Russia.

If you leave out political alignment, which you have since you specifically brought up corruption and development status as your definition, then there is absolutely no reason to treat Argentina at a lower category than Russia.

Both have abnormally large manufacturing sectors that are heavily subsidized.

I'm kind of wondering what's going to happen to China once the current modernisation project starts wrapping up. Russia on the other hand mostly just needs fewer sanctions and a slightly less regressive government and it'll be flying away.

And higher oil and gas prices.

[Orange Wizard]

then there is absolutely no reason to treat Argentina at a lower category than Russia.

Nobody cares about Argentina

And higher oil and gas prices.

Pretty sure most countries would like that. Except places that don't drill any oil, like NZ.

[Sheb]

Firt- Second- and Third-Wolrd refers to living standard and economic development, not to influence. I mean, no one cares about Andorra, but no one would call them a third-world country.

[Harry Baldman]

Firt- Second- and Third-Wolrd refers to living standard and economic development, not to influence. I mean, no one cares about Andorra, but no one would call them a third-world country.

It does, but that's because it's a transplanted term being used incorrectly. The living standard and economic development correlates vaguely with these boundaries, but as in the case of, say, Brazil or Southeast Asia, isn't really all that indicative of economic development or so forth. It does see use in the definition you use, but it's a sort of pop-definition that doesn't carry any real weight or even that much information.

That's not the only model of three worlds, of course, but this one actually literally is about overall influence.

[Sheb]

Well, there is yet another etymology for "Third World", which is an analogy to the "Third Estate" of the French Ancient Régime.

[Harry Baldman]

That's the original etymology. The Third World was coined by the demographer guy who originally made the division in direct reference to the Third Estate (meaning "all those other nations that aren't capitalist or communist powers or affiliates" as compared to "all those other guys who aren't nobility or clergy").

[Vilanat]

then there is absolutely no reason to treat Argentina at a lower category than Russia.

Nobody cares about Argentina

And higher oil and gas prices.

Pretty sure most countries would like that. Except places that don't drill any oil, like NZ.

Are you sure? i think that there are more net oil importers than exporters. as for other implications, that's beyond me since i am not an economist.

[Orange Wizard]

1st, 2nd, 3rd-world in the vernacular refers to human development. It's not incorrect, that's just what the term means in the context of the modern day.
In the context of the Cold War, it refers to affiliation, but that's long past and while the effects are still present people don't care about the Cold War when talking about how well-developed Argentina is.

Are you sure? i think that there are more net oil importers than exporters. as for other implications, that's beyond me since i am not an economist.

By "most" I mean, like, Canada, and Venezuela. Pretty sure that's about half?

[mainiac]

I'm kind of wondering what's going to happen to China once the current modernisation project starts wrapping up. Russia on the other hand mostly just needs fewer sanctions and a slightly less regressive government and it'll be flying away.

I think half the world is wondering about China.

Russia wouldn't really be "flying away" under a less regressive government.  They are already a wealthy country.  There isn't some easy obvious way to grow an economy like that like importing foreign technology and capital and making an industrial base for the first time.  Russia needs slow, steady growth like Mexico or Poland.

[Sheb]

Mainiac: That's why I was kinda surprised to see you characterize both Russia and China as "country with great growth potential".

Although, at least by some measures the Chinese and Russian per capita GDP really aren't that far. Like, this IMF report has Russia at 9,000$ dollar per capita and China at 8,000$. Ok, nominal, but still.

Edit: With the polls so close, I'm starting to be really afraid of a very narrox Brexit victory that would then be ignored, seeing as the referendum is apparently non-binding.

[martinuzz]

Nobody cares about Argentina

Our King does. He married an Argentinian. Daughter of Jorge Zorreguieta, who is accused of being accomplice in the killing of thousands of political opponents as a minister under the regime of president Videla (most infamously by throwing them out of airplanes over the open sea, alive.)

But yeah, oil. Shell. Royal Dutch Shell is the full name of Shell. I'm sure that marriage opened up some doors to nice oil deals.

[mainiac]

Mainiac: That's why I was kinda surprised to see you characterize both Russia and China as "country with great growth potential".

On the one hand, hopes of rapid growth are exaggerated.  On the other hand they have room for decades of slow and steady catch up with technological frontier countries like the US, Germany and Japan.  On the third hand their political systems seem to have a love hate relationship with incremental progress.  On the forth hand disruptions to global trade patterns could make all of this malarky.