Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

FUCK YES LET'S LEAVE GET HYPE YEY

Casual yes, let's leave and get independence done with

Meh, probably just scribble all over my vote ballot to spite tryhards

Casual no, let's remain and get integration done with

FUCK NO LET'S REMAIN GET CALM YEY

[Radio Controlled]

The gravy train keeps chukking.

By the way, not sure if I have put these two next to each other before:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1344473/nigel-farage-rubbishes-calls-for-a-second-eu-referendum-as-petition-calling-for-one-gets-3m-signatures/
NIGEL Farage has rubbished calls for a second EU referendum, saying “it’s not the best of three”.
It comes after more than three million people signed a petition for a second referendum on Britain’s EU membership.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/683440/farage-blast-second-referendum-david-lammy-brexit
NIGEL Farage has said the European Union referendum result is “not a game of the best of three” after a Labour MP backed a petition calling for a second referendum.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Nigel Farage has slammed the record-breaking petition calling for a second EU referendum
Former Labour Minister David Lammy backed the viral petition – which has more than 2.5 million signatures – saying: “We can stop this madness.”

The Tottenham MP claims the referendum is not legally binding and can be overturned by the Commons – where a majority of MPs support remaining in the 27-nation bloc.
But the Ukip leader ferociously hit back at the mammoth petition, saying: “It’s the last thing I want to see. It’s not a game of the best of three.”

Compare and contrast to:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017
The Ukip leader speaks to the Mirror’s Associate Editor Kevin Maguire and warns that a '52-48 result would be unfinished business'
Nigel Farage warns today he would fight for a second referendum on Britain in Europe if the remain campaign won by a narrow margin next month.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Ukip leader said a small defeat for his leave camp would be “unfinished business” and predicted pressure would grow for a re-run of the 23 June ballot.

Farage told the Mirror: “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.”
The threat by a veteran of the Europhobic struggle to pull Britain out of the European Union illustrates why David Cameron is desperate for a decisive result to avoid “neverendum” uncertainty in the country and Tory ranks.

The Ukip leader’s declaration of defiance raises the prospect of the Brexit brigade copying Scottish Nationalists chivvying for a second independence referendum since losing by 55.3%-44.7% in their 2014 plebiscite on breaking up Britain.
That’s why the Prime Minister’s yearning for a clear victory to answer the Europe question in favour of staying in and quelling Brexit fanatics in his own ranks.

In the event of a defeat Farage, who maintains Britain will vote to quit the EU, would exploit claims the referendum was unfair after the Government dubiously spent £9m on a leaflet to every home.
But the remain side is likely to accuse him of sour grapes and being a bad loser, getting his excuses in early as he braces himself for defeat.

Man, the leave campaign sure has quality leadership going for it.

Like this inspirational bloke:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/christiane-amanpour-brexit-dan-hannan_us_5771d11be4b017b379f7258c
A leader of the U.K. Brexit campaign on Monday denied promoting the “leave” vote as a way to stem immigration and said the referendum outcome has nothing to do with a reported surge in incidences of racism.

Dan Hannan, a Conservative member of European Parliament, told CNN International host Christiane Amanpour that he “never, ever said” voting for Brexit would halt immigration. Shortly after the vote, he told the BBC that those who wanted Brexit to stop immigration would be “disappointed.”

Hannan also scoffed at statistics that Amanpour said show a 57 percent increase in racist incidents since the Brexit vote.

“Are you concerned about some of the post-Brexit hate crimes?” Amanpour asked.

“Oh, come on,” Hannan replied. “That’s our fault? That is an outrageous question. ... What you are suggesting is that there is a connection between people who voted in our democracy and some of these incidences.”

At least, at the very least, the fishermen can look forward to seeing their situation fixed and overturning the problems with the current arrangement. So at least one touchstone issue of the leave campaign will be fulf-

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/28/british-fishermen-warned-brexit-will-not-mean-greater-catches
Fisheries chiefs and campaigners say current catch quotas will continue until the UK leaves the EU, and new arrangements may not be more generous

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

British fishermen have been warned that, despite the promises made by the leave campaign, they cannot expect to be granted greater catches after the UK leaves the European Union, and they may face increased economic turmoil.
Fishermen will have to remain within their current catch quotas while the UK is still a member, and even if new arrangements are negotiated after a Brexit, they will not necessarily be more generous, fisheries chiefs and campaigners have warned.

British fishing fleets will still be bound by international agreements on fish stocks that must now be worked out, and which may not be to their benefit.
“Promises have been made and expectations raised during the referendum campaign and it is now time to examine if and how they can be delivered,” said the National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations.

...


Anyways, on to other news:

BBC: Brexit vote: Bitter exchanges as EU parliament debates Brexit

There have been bitter exchanges in the European parliament during a debate on the UK's vote to leave the EU.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

A central figure in the Leave campaign, UK Independence Party (UKIP) leader Nigel Farage, was booed, called a liar and accused of using "Nazi propaganda".

But in his speech Mr Farage told parliament members "you as a political project are in denial".
He said hardly any of them had ever done a proper job in their lives, or created one.

The parliament was holding a special session ahead of a meeting later on Tuesday between EU leader and UK Prime Minister David Cameron - the first such meeting since the UK's vote.

Mr Cameron is stepping down, saying it will be up to his successor to trigger the formal method by which the country leaves the EU, and to conduct exit negotiations.
The European Parliament voted in favour of a motion urging the UK to do so immediately, by triggering Article 50.
Opening the session in parliament, European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker said the British government should "clarify" its position.

Anyway... folks that were paying more attention to the lead up. Any of you lot know of/would be able to give a summary of what the leave campaign promised as part of its go at things? Stuff like that NHS money, et al. Watching the shake out of this stuff and the leave politicians' reactions is making me wonder just how much of their campaign they've backpeddled on in the last few days, and it'd be nice to have a clearer picture of what it all was. Apparently they've backed on the NHS funding, they've backed on there being much change to immigration, some have backed on there being much change regarding general regulation, and I've just now noticed they're apparently backing on the assurances vis a vis the fishery management, too. It's getting kinda' farcical, really...

There is this:
Reality Check: Have Leave campaigners changed their tune?

[Starver]

Anyway... folks that were paying more attention to the lead up. Any of you lot know of/would be able to give a summary of what the leave campaign promised as part of its go at things?

The only thing that stood up to any cursory inspection was "We'll no longer be in the EU".

There were promises/hints that the £350m/week (that wasn't) would be spent to vastly improve upon on the NHS (already on £116bn/year, so the proportion of >£2bn/week that would have been was laughable), and pretty much every other promise regarding that money goes the same way.

There were promises that we could stop immigration, and free movement within the EU would have been cut, but most people were worried about non-EU migrants getting to the UK, which is no easier or harder with us out of the EU, as we weren't exactly building bridges for them and our vulnerability to illegal immigration is certainly no less, right now (and we'll probably lose official access to the Europe-wide police databases).

Something something something something TTIP.  But then we somehow have to negotiate a better deal with the US as a small country. And with Europe

We'll be free from EU regulations (marvelous news for all our olive-growers!), except such regulations that Europe insists we still subscribe to or have worse trade relations than Canada.  "Take Back Control" was next to "Democratic Deficit" as the oft-spouted meaningless phrases used by certain militant individuals.

There were all those unrepresentative beaurocrats nobody likes (everybody loves all our elected officials, of course!) except that there aren't actually that many of them, in comparison to the Civil Service, and as 1/28th of the EU we actually had a significant amount of influence, moreso than proportionally we should have, and now I refer you to the previous paragraph.

There's now no danger of us joining the euro (but almost guaranteed that it'd be one of the prices we'd be forced to pay if we wanted back in) and time alone will tell how the Pound will fare against non-euro currencies in the medium to long term.

... I'm sure there was something else, but nothing that I personally rated.  Not that Remain had much on their side other than 'Business as usual", either.

[BFEL]

God forbid we call anyone closeminded. It would just be rewriting society to let in immigrants. Sure our jobs and homes would be virtually unchanged and we would probably be wealthier but somehow it is rewriting society.

How fucking exactly do we manage all this without changing anything? No seriously, what the bloody fuck is your magic bullet to apparently make people wealthier and more accepting of others while not undergoing enormous societal change? Cuz y'know there are QUITE A FEW GOVERNMENTS that could sorely use your advice Mr. HasAllTheAnswers

[scrdest]

Guys. Consult your doctor or pharmacist on the recommended Chill Pill dosage.

[SirQuiamus]

At least, at the very least, the fishermen can look forward to seeing their situation fixed and overturning the problems with the current arrangement. So at least one touchstone issue of the leave campaign will be fulf-

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/28/british-fishermen-warned-brexit-will-not-mean-greater-catches
Fisheries chiefs and campaigners say current catch quotas will continue until the UK leaves the EU, and new arrangements may not be more generous

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

British fishermen have been warned that, despite the promises made by the leave campaign, they cannot expect to be granted greater catches after the UK leaves the European Union, and they may face increased economic turmoil.
Fishermen will have to remain within their current catch quotas while the UK is still a member, and even if new arrangements are negotiated after a Brexit, they will not necessarily be more generous, fisheries chiefs and campaigners have warned.

British fishing fleets will still be bound by international agreements on fish stocks that must now be worked out, and which may not be to their benefit.
“Promises have been made and expectations raised during the referendum campaign and it is now time to examine if and how they can be delivered,” said the National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations.

...

...shocking.

[BFEL]

Guys. Consult your doctor or pharmacist on the recommended Chill Pill dosage.

Sorry, just can't help but imagine mainiac as having a smug grin with everything he writes. I probably do the same thing but fuck.

I'm a bit irritated at him because all his arguments I've seen so far seem to go like that South Park sketch.
Y'know the:
Step 1: Let Immigrants in
Step 2: Give them everything they want
Step 3: 
Step 4: Profit

So I would just really like him to explain what the hell step 3 is already.

[Leafsnail]

It's funny you mention that because that seems to be the exact approach of the Leave campaign wrt exiting the EU

[Radio Controlled]

Small update on those lovely little events happening that are, of course, in no possible way related to the vote result.
Post EU Referendum Racism Documented Online And It’s Really Scary
It has a lot of stuff already mentioned in the older articles, but also some new things, such as "Neo-nazi stickers have gone up all around the Clyde and Glasgow Green in the last few days."

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Oh, and just in case any treehuggers among us (which includes me, by the way) thought they'd be spared the wonderful consequences of a brexit:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/28/leave-vote-makes-uks-transition-to-clean-energy-harder-say-experts

Analysts say Brexit will create uncertainty for energy sector, which could hit £20bn investment a year needed to replace ageing, dirty power plants

The UK’s challenge to build a clean, secure and affordable energy system has become significantly harder amid the political and economic turmoil following the nation’s vote to leave the European Union.
Higher customer bills and delayed or cancelled projects are expected by experts, the most pessimistic of whom warn of the lights going out. The optimists argue that the global rush towards clean energy and strong domestic UK climate change targets can keep the transition to clean, green energy moving forward.

However, the leading Brexiters, such as climate change doubter and likely next prime minister Boris Johnson, will play a critical role. If the deal they negotiate with the EU means close ties - and crucially access, like Norway, to Europe’s internal energy market (IEM) - the long-term dent to the UK’s energy prospects may be reduced. But a more decisive break with the world’s biggest single market would leave the UK out in the cold.

More info here also: http://www.the-weinberg-foundation.org/2016/06/27/the-impact-of-brexit-on-clean-energy/

[palsch]

Crab enters the Tory leadership race.

So that is Johnson, May and Crab officially in, Hunt looking likely.

The Conservative leadership election involves several rounds of voting by the Parliamentary Party (elected Conservative MPs), eliminating the candidate with the lowest votes until there are only two remaining, who are then put up in a straight up election of the general party members.



With regards the leave arguments, they were very careful. They rarely made promises, only suggestions. So they didn't say the money would go to the NHS, only that it could go to the NHS. They didn't say they would cut immigration, only that the EU stopped us blocking migration. These combined with half-truths and tactical lies were probably the deciding factor.

The best tactical lie was the £350 million, because trying to say our actual payments are only £250 million is still arguing their point, that we are sending $BigNumber cash to the EU rather than keeping it here.

Also the worse propaganda about immigration came from outside the official Leave campaign, such as Farage's queue poster. The Leave campaign did call out the tactic, distancing themselves from it but not actually saying the underlying message was wrong.

[BFEL]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I can't be the only one who now wants that one in the lower left to be the new flag for gay awareness can I?

[nenjin]

Guys. Consult your doctor or pharmacist on the recommended Chill Pill dosage.

Sorry, just can't help but imagine mainiac as having a smug grin with everything he writes. I probably do the same thing but fuck.

I'm a bit irritated at him because all his arguments I've seen so far seem to go like that South Park sketch.
Y'know the:
Step 1: Let Immigrants in
Step 2: Give them everything they want
Step 3: 
Step 4: Profit

So I would just really like him to explain what the hell step 3 is already.

Maybe go back to Step 2 and rephrase it in a way that isn't complete garbage first.

[Starver]

I can't be the only one who now wants that one in the lower left to be the new flag for gay awareness can I?

I was mostly thinking that someone must have had fun designing the basic glyph...

[scrdest]

I can't be the only one who now wants that one in the lower left to be the new flag for gay awareness can I?

I was mostly thinking that someone must have had fun designing the basic glyph...

And presumably a lot of research materials...

[SirQuiamus]

Guys. Consult your doctor or pharmacist on the recommended Chill Pill dosage.

Sorry, just can't help but imagine mainiac as having a smug grin with everything he writes. I probably do the same thing but fuck.

I'm a bit irritated at him because all his arguments I've seen so far seem to go like that South Park sketch.
Y'know the:
Step 1: Let Immigrants in
Step 2: Give them everything they want
Step 3: 
Step 4: Profit

So I would just really like him to explain what the hell step 3 is already.

Maybe go back to Step 2 and rephrase it in a way that isn't complete garbage first.

It's not complete garbage by any means! Most migrants want nothing but a job and a place to live, and those are exactly the things that Americans (and Europeans, in similar instances) don't want them to have.

[Rolepgeek]

They don't want them to have a job that could do to a domestic-both citizen. Which is fair enough, but people underestimate the economy's ability to grow to fit the available resources. Education's needed for that, of course, but getting the immigrants kind by having them help build the infrastructure needed to integrate effectively seems like a self-solving problem. There might be the issue of funds, but when has that not been an issue, and also tax the rich.

None of the easy fixes will ever be taken, of course. Neither will direct intervention in Syria (cuz the current plan has worked out so well, ya know). That would be too easy, and nobody would stand to politically profit from it.