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FUCK YES LET'S LEAVE GET HYPE YEY

Casual yes, let's leave and get independence done with

Meh, probably just scribble all over my vote ballot to spite tryhards

Casual no, let's remain and get integration done with

FUCK NO LET'S REMAIN GET CALM YEY

[Neonivek]

Yes what happens within a country at that scale is the country fault. Whose fault should be? Refugees are just running away from their horror. People is just people, and get at most a vote, they don't do policy nor are expected to. The state should be the one trying to organize the integration, but you only get them talk about camps or closing frontiers, neither of which had ever worked.

Well I do admit... saying that the UK is too scummy, racist, and/or inept to successfully support refugees without causing problems down the line is certainly a new one.

[Orange Wizard]

You know something's gone horribly wrong when the EU guys are the good guys

[Frumple]

You invade, you withdraw when you've broken the warlord. Like shattered broken. You go fast and hard and then you pull out. You don't stick around like an unwanted guest and outstay your welcome.

Maaaate. That is basically what caused the mess you're talking about to begin with. Turns out when you leave a power vacuum and however much dead people and destroyed infrastructure, and then mostly just fuck off, pretty much bloody anything can fill the hole and it's really likely to not be particularly fond of you, nor much in the way of decent.

Basically. What you're suggesting, broadly speaking, not only does not work to prevent or stop what you're suggesting to use it for, it actually tends to the exacerbate or outright cause such situations.

So, uh. Yeah. Let's not suggest making the same goddamn mistake for the Nth time, maybe.

... not that any of this discussion really has bugger all to deal with the current UK troubles, but eh.

[Cthulhu]

We already killed several warlords, only to find out that their dictatorships were the only thing keeping the nutbars in check.

[Neonivek]

We already killed several warlords, only to find out that their dictatorships were the only thing keeping the nutbars in check.

That is kind of the shame of how the world works sometimes.

It takes a strong leader often to keep a place from just breaking down into chaos... and that person isn't always "good" so to speak... in fact they predominately won't be because an immoral opportunist has a huge heads up on a well meaning charismatic leader with the knowledge of how to lead a nation.

[MarcAFK]

Enter Putin, the Bond villain the world deserves, just not the Bond villain the world likes to meme right now.

[LoSboccacc]

It's not genocide if the only people you kill are the ones trying to kill you.

See the invasion part. I'm not sure how "invade them and use unlimited force to enforce our values on them" doesn't justify resistance. If Middle Eastern adventurism has taught us anything so far, it's that invading a country, toppling the government, enforcing foreign values, and killing anyone who tries to stop you doesn't help anyone but the guy making all the bullets and body bags.

You invade, you withdraw when you've broken the warlord. Like shattered broken. You go fast and hard and then you pull out. You don't stick around like an unwanted guest and outstay your welcome. My gratitude for a stranger will rapidly wear thin if they decide to crash on the couch for a week after saving me from a robber.

You let them build their government, so long as it isn't utterly horrible to the people it's meant to govern. If that means Shariah law and the people there are on board with it and allowed to leave when they aren't, that's fine. If it means Marxism has a new cultural center, great, whatever. Point is to stop the atrocities.

coz that worked out a-ok for Egypt last time round.

[Sergarr]

Apparently on the currently ongoing European Parliament session, MPs from Scotland and Northern Ireland have declared that they're going to campaign to leave UK in order to stay in EU.

United Kingdom is already dead.

[LoSboccacc]

they're going to [...] already dead

whoa let's wait at least until it's cold to ring that bell

[Frumple]

No, no, even if they split off it could still be the united kingdom. Just, y'know. The united kingdom of england and wales, instead of the united kingdom of great britain and northern ireland :V

The full title would change, the shorthand would stay the same. If it happens, anyway, which... yeah. Does seem increasingly like scotland, at the least, is going to actually manage it this time.

[Sergarr]

they're going to [...] already dead

whoa let's wait at least until it's cold to ring that bell

No, no, at this point, the actual destruction of UK is a matter of time. The EU has declared UK to be its next victim, and it means that UK is done for, since now all secession movements in UK will have direct political and financial support of the entire 470 million strong EU. UK is fucking done. The best it can hope for a painless slide off into obscurity and irrelevance a la Argentina, and for the worst, well, it has been a long time since England fought Scotland & Ireland...

[Starver]

No, no, even if they split off it could still be the united kingdom. Just, y'know. The united kingdom of england and wales, instead of the united kingdom of great britain and northern ireland :V

The full title would change, the shorthand would stay the same. If it happens, anyway, which... yeah. Does seem increasingly like scotland, at the least, is going to actually manage it this time.

What about it down-forming into the United Kingdom of Scotland, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar? They stay, England gains independence without the fuss of seeking EU (re)entry and Wales (possibly also Cornwall, while we're thinking that way) get the option to choose which parent/guardian, the saxon or the celt, they really want to live with, but probably end up with the Saes, by referendum results.

[Starver]

now all secession movements in UK will have direct political and financial support of the entire 470 million strong EU.

Spain, for example? Because they want to encourage the Basques, the Catalans, etc?

[mainiac]

There are no jobs in Sweden for non-swedish-speaking, skilless and/or educationless, and in many times analphabetic people. Those few such jobs there is would also be shared with the large population of Swedish speaking skilless and/or educationless people (of both eedieh and immigrant backgrounds) that are already in Sweden and unemployed.

Well obviously the two year assimilation process involves teaching them enough Swedish to get along in contemporary society.

As for jobs, I didn't know that the Swedish education system was so horrible that they have a huge glut of low skilled labor.  I am disappointed Sweden.

Both. Mostly houses, I suspect, though.

There are 18.5 million empty homes in the United States right now.  We could easily house 3.7 million refugees and all are homeless if we gave a shit.  And we do have the ability to build more.  We can't build more land in cities for people to compete for while wishing rent didn't follow the laws of supply and demand but physical structures are quite easy.

It's so sad.  This isn't the country that went to the moon.  You say something that is clearly achievable and people say it's impossible because it would take effort.  Is taking effort impossible anymore?

I would suggest that you guys consider the Muriel boatlift.  Over 100,000 refugees dumped in south Florida with very little preparation and no clue what's going on.  Many of them lacked language skills.  Low wage workers weren't hurt at all.  If Miami can handle Muriel then Sweden can easily handle a few hundred thousand.

[Dorsidwarf]

No, no, at this point, the actual destruction of UK is a matter of time. The EU has declared UK to be its next victim, and it means that UK is done for, since now all secession movements in UK will have direct political and financial support of the entire 470 million strong EU. UK is fucking done. The best it can hope for a painless slide off into obscurity and irrelevance a la Argentina, and for the worst, well, it has been a long time since England fought Scotland & Ireland...

Are you a wizard high right now?

Because I've heard more coherent and believable arguments from a man who genuinely believes that the twin towers were brought down by wizards and/or aliens.
"You voted out, fine, but we wont start negotiating until you actually confirm you're going out" is a long way from "DIE, TOMMIES, DIE"

Why are so many of the most fervent brexiteers suddenly upset? They won.