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FUCK YES LET'S LEAVE GET HYPE YEY

Casual yes, let's leave and get independence done with

Meh, probably just scribble all over my vote ballot to spite tryhards

Casual no, let's remain and get integration done with

FUCK NO LET'S REMAIN GET CALM YEY

[Sonlirain]

The EU already couldn't fine them for refugee or anything, as Britain had an opt-out on migration issues.

So... why did they leave exactly?
I thought immigration and migration was the important part that made people take their toys and leave the sandbox.

[MonkeyHead]

The EU already couldn't fine them for refugee or anything, as Britain had an opt-out on migration issues.

So... why did they leave exactly?
I thought immigration and migration was the important part that made people take their toys and leave the sandbox.

Because those who led the leave campaign were economical with the truth on the matter, pandering to peoples fears in a populist manner. Telling the truth would never have allowed the powermongers to get their own way.

[Leafsnail]

But it's OK for our country's long-term future to be decided based on those lies.

[Sonlirain]

Bah. And i thought western european democracies are smarter than their younger eastern counterparts.

Guess democracy while great and free is never exactly smart.
I should have joined the pioneers when i had the chance.

[Loud Whispers]

At the top of the EU there are two competing approaches to the future of Europe. The European Commission, led by President Jean-Claude Juncker, believes in further integration. It generally seeks to respond to crises by pressing member states to accept "European" solutions that involve more powers for EU institutions.

But the President of the European Council, Donald Tusk, takes a different line. In recent weeks he has repeatedly warned that more centralisation would turn citizens against the EU.

"Obsessed with the idea of instant and total integration, we failed to notice that ordinary people, the citizens of Europe, do not share our Euro-enthusiasm," he said.

Oh god, he even calls it euro-enthusiasm

My eurokeks are leaving orbit

Good on Tusk though for actually trying to address EU criticism instead of ignore it, should've started that years ago though

It is true that at some point EU leaders may need to tackle particular problems, like the euro or refugees, by giving specific new powers to EU institutions.

Insert beeb reeee e.t.c., nah there's no need to shout impartiality, they titled it as viewpoint. Good guys that beeb

Fears of even greater German dominance explain why politicians in Rome, Paris and Warsaw are so horrified by the prospect of Brexit.
The Germans are particularly fearful of Brexit, and not only because they worry that other EU countries - now even more anxious about German dominance - may be tempted to form an alliance against them.

Oi Germans ITT, are you worried about this? Seems unlikely that your periphery states can hate your country any more than they already do

Policymakers in the US are horrified by the referendum result. They see the UK as a bridge between themselves and continental Europe. And they knew that on foreign policy questions, the UK often helps to steer the EU towards relatively tough or US-friendly positions.

Obama should never have gotten involved
But thanks Obama

EU leaders will have an interest in ensuring that the Union maintains a close economic relationship with the UK, for everyone's benefit. But they will not compromise on fundamental principles, such as free movement of labour as the price for single market access.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36619129

I love this, they refuse to compromise on fundamental principles when we're in the EU, refuse to compromise on fundamental principles when we're without - in for a penny, devalue the pound, italeave and france's out

Anyways in lieu of this, will the Germans let the Dutch, French and Italians have their referendum on the EU now that they realize people can vote for the wrong option?

[Sheb]

I'm not sure why you think that the Germans have any power on whether the Dutch, Italians or French hold referendums.

[Loud Whispers]

I'm not sure why you think that the Germans have any power on whether the Dutch, Italians or French hold referendums.

wink wink

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I'm not sure why you think that the Germans have any power on whether the Dutch, Italians or French hold referendums.

wink wink

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[BFEL]

So why does everyone think this is the worst thing ever? I mean, not only is there the "holy shit democracy wasn't instantly revoked when they chose the unexpected option" factor of it (though it might be slowly revoked, have to keep watching) you also get to not have local policy determined by people six countries over from you.

So could you guys explain to an American why this is literally the worst thing ever? I was actually surprised and happy when I heard the result (though mostly for the above holy shit factor) so what about this exactly is going to set off the dark ages?

[Leafsnail]

The UK is very dependent on trade and this hugely hinders our ability to trade

e: also basically every aspect of the Leave campaign was completely untrue.

[BFEL]

The UK is very dependent on trade and this hugely hinders our ability to trade

How so? There was note earlier that you would "still have to meet EU requirements without the power to vote on them" before, and that was a decent point. Is that the point you're making or is there something else?

[MonkeyHead]

I'm not sure why you think that the Germans have any power on whether the Dutch, Italians or French hold referendums.

wink wink

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

FTFY

So why does everyone think this is the worst thing ever? I mean, not only is there the "holy shit democracy wasn't instantly revoked when they chose the unexpected option" factor of it (though it might be slowly revoked, have to keep watching) you also get to not have local policy determined by people six countries over from you.

So could you guys explain to an American why this is literally the worst thing ever? I was actually surprised and happy when I heard the result (though mostly for the above holy shit factor) so what about this exactly is going to set off the dark ages?

A large part of the discontent is that it became immediately apparent that a significant number of the claims of those leading the campaign were in general hollow promises, and things that were labelled as "half truths" did in fact turn out to be half truths. There seems also to be a lot of buyers remorse going on amongst those who did not believe that things like the pound falling would happen. Roll in the way that there are massive demographic and geographic splits in the vote between, and you end up with whole sectors of society that feel (fairly or unfairly) totally disenfranchised by the process - do not forget that this was an "advisory vote" with no legal standing to be followed regardless of the result, no turn out requirement, nor a threshold for decision making. Lots of people feel aggrieved that MASSIVE change is potentially going to be based on a 1.7% mandate in a vote of this nature, which they would not have felt in a legally binding vote with a 25% majority that meets some turnout requirement.The most obvious example of this is the Scottish issue, but other subtle ones exist. British politics is not good at polarised A or B choices, as there have always been at least 3 options on the table, maybe more, and genuine protest vote options that may not have had era defining consequences.

[Frumple]

The amusing thing from the american perspective is that the results of the UK vote would have... pretty much never happened in the US. Which kinda' makes it weird when US folks crow over the "victory of democracy", when they're living in a country that it would be viewed as a significant failure of democracy. Our system is pretty much explicitly set up to stop anything but a supermajority from having any significant influence over major issues :V

Basically this is one of the better examples of the democracy the US was in part built to avoid, ehehe. Not that the referendum is binding or anything, technically, but still.

[NJW2000]

you also get to not have local policy determined by people six countries over from you.

In a Britain where only 25% of the population that can vote actually voted for the majority government in power, some people like the progressive EU regulations that were imposed on us more than the legislation our government puts through.

[Leafsnail]

How so? There was note earlier that you would "still have to meet EU requirements without the power to vote on them" before, and that was a decent point. Is that the point you're making or is there something else?

Yes, the best case scenario is that we are forced to still abide by the same regulations and not get any of the current benefits. The worst case scenario is that they don't even let us do that and we're just screwed.