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[LordBaal]

I would argue it's actually otherwise and it's a huge far left push that's sweeping gullible people everywhere.

[Loud Whispers]

I'm trying to not be convinced at the spot, but it sounds incredibly well descriptive of the recent events. Is there any reading on that?

I don't remember anything specific off the top of my head, but if you look into corporatism and the economics of fascist Italy or Nazi Germany there'll be lots of reading material there. The short end of the stick there was that a few dominant corporations were given state support to crush their domestic competition, but in turn were subordinated to official state purposes.

I agree with MSH though, that this is part of the definition but not sufficient, because there are systems like China or Singapore where the above describes the economy but they are not fascist. I still ponder what *exactly* fascism is, but I imagine that's part of the problem. Hard to recognise fascism until you've sleepwalked into it

[sluissa]

Here's a good topic I don't often see discussed, what are the common causes of the recent extreme right-wing push world wide? Is the heat "melting peoples brain" and making them more violent like the Arab Spring deal people used to talk about?

I see it as a response to world governments getting more and more tall and top heavy and people on the ground feeling more and more like they have no voice.

Granted, I think this is more of a universal thing. The party in power always ends up in a position where some chunk of people aren't happy. The people who are happy get complacent about the status quo. The whole thing flips on its head. It's a pendulum. Political changes are always a matter of someone promising to make things better and usually failing to fulfill those promises.

I would argue it's actually otherwise and it's a huge far left push that's sweeping gullible people everywhere.

There's definitely been a significant right wing push in some areas, but others have seen left wing pushes as well. For the most part it doesn't really matter, it's just politicians picking whichever phrasing they think is convenient to gather the support of the angry. It's populism whether it's left or right wing and it typically ends up being an extreme of one or the other because compromise and moderation doesn't make anyone happy.

[Magistrum]

I guess it would seem like a right wing push to me since I live in Brazil and that's the latest development here.

I agree with MSH though, that this is part of the definition but not sufficient, because there are systems like China or Singapore where the above describes the economy but they are not fascist. I still ponder what *exactly* fascism is, but I imagine that's part of the problem. Hard to recognise fascism until you've sleepwalked into it

Yeah, there's certainly more at play here.
On China tough? I'm sure it is down the fascism route hard, with term limits abolished, concentration camps and civil unrest repression to boot.
I mean, back when term limits were remove I was convinced, but after the whole Meng Hongwei shitshow it's clear they have no respect for international cooperation or due process.
Let's hope Xi is public disgraced as his antecessor and they roll-back the most egregious violations of individual liberty. Or, you know, revolution.

[Loud Whispers]

Yeah, there's certainly more at play here.
On China tough? I'm sure it is down the fascism route hard, with term limits abolished, concentration camps and civil unrest repression to boot.

You could find all of those things in a monarchy, a colonial democracy, a liberal dictatorship or a communist dictatorship too though, wouldn't make them fascist. There are multiple flavours of authoritarian regime from which we may taste the various rainbows of pain

I mean, back when term limits were remove I was convinced, but after the whole Meng Hongwei shitshow it's clear they have no respect for international cooperation or due process.
Let's hope Xi is public disgraced as his antecessor and they roll-back the most egregious violations of individual liberty. Or, you know, revolution.

Nah he's not lost heaven's mandate. Besides, revolution would just create the chaos to place a new strongman in power

[Reelya]

I still ponder what *exactly* fascism is, but I imagine that's part of the problem. Hard to recognise fascism until you've sleepwalked into it

Fascism came out of WWI. Consider the type of wartime powers WWI governments used. Commandeer all industry, propaganda, hate the enemy/outsider, forced conformity: "disloyal" people outed as spies/traitors, everyone indoctrinated to comply with expanding state power. Fascism can pretty much be summed up as the "Forever WWI" model of government.

The fascists looked at the "total war" model of WWI and considered it to be the next stage of social development, with a social darwinistic bent. The idea was that if you didn't go full-fascist (total war economy/society) then you'd be over-run by other states that did it. Basically it's an attempt to unify military+political into one system. So where Marx really talked about removing the dichotomy between economic hierarchies and political hierarchies, fascism removes the dichotomy between military power and political power. So in Communism, the economic and political are merged, and you still have the army off to the side, whereas with fascism, the military and political are merged and you still have the economic off to the side (i.e. corporations aren't merged).

This is why fascist leaders are so keen on wearing military uniforms. They then added on the idea of the "race" as the natural unit of society, which was why the Germans were so keen to grab any areas with ethnic Germans in them, so the Nazi version became the idea of total war between racial groups rather than just nation states per-se. The "ultimate" form of fascism would thus be one in which there's no concept of a civilian: everyone would have a unit and designation within the state apparatus and there's always a clear chain of command.

[Loud Whispers]

Fascism came out of WWI. Consider the type of wartime powers WWI governments used. Commandeer all industry, propaganda, hate the enemy/outsider, forced conformity: "disloyal" people outed as spies/traitors, everyone indoctrinated to comply with expanding state power. Fascism can pretty much be summed up as the "Forever WWI" model of government.

Still doesn't distinguish it from a lot of other authoritarian governments

The fascists looked at the "total war" model of WWI and considered it to be the next stage of social development, with a social darwinistic bent. The idea was that if you didn't go full-fascist (total war economy/society) then you'd be over-run by other states that did it. Basically it's an attempt to unify military+political into one system. This is why fascist leaders are so keen on wearing military uniforms. The "ultimate" form of fascism would thus be one in which there's no concept of a civilian: everyone would have a unit and designation within the state apparatus and there's always a clear chain of command.

The more I look into it the more I find fascist Italy, Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, Francoist Spain to be different kinds of fascism even from each other, while states like Singapore or Portugal had regimes which looked distinctly fascist, but seem to have escaped the branding largely for marketing purposes. Even today stuff like nation-state darwinism is still in use today, albeit couched in terms of economics & geopolitics instead of biology, but I wouldn't call the USA fascist. I suppose it's like communism, in that the surest sign of a communist government is self-identification; most all else may vary. But I do agree totally on the militiarization of everyone and everything for the never-ending war, but it does brush awfully close to the never-ending revolution

Umberto Ecos Ur-fascism is a pretty comprehensive general definition I think is useful. I don't think I have anything new to say so my tl;dr is the most reliable sign of fascism is self-identifying, need to use violence to take action, need to take action for action's sake against an enemy who is powerful & weak, disregard for constitutional limits of any kind, contempt for weak e.t.c.

[askovdk]

Here's a good topic I don't often see discussed, what are the common causes of the recent extreme right-wing push world wide? Is the heat "melting peoples brain" and making them more violent like the Arab Spring deal people used to talk about?

I see it as a response to world governments getting more and more tall and top heavy and people on the ground feeling more and more like they have no voice.
...

Assuming that:
  Left = Share what you have with strangers
  Right = Protect what you have against strangers

Then my feeling is that it’s due to there (IMHO) being way to many people on this globe than needed, so people that can’t sustain a living try to migrate.
‘People on the ground’ are at the same time becoming easier and easier to replace (at least in management’s eyes), and the combination of these makes the ground dwellers (rightfully?) feeling their way of life threaten by strangers.
 -> they move right to protect what little they have, and gives up on the idea of everyone working together to increase prosperity for all. (And yes, the last 10-20 years seem to show that the ultra-rich will fight hard to get another billion instead of ‘increasing prosperity for all’  )

[LordBaal]

Assuming that:
  Left = Share what other people have (no matter if they want or not) with strangers
  Right = Protect what you have against strangers

That's more accurate on how it's done in real life.

The main difference in facism and communism is that in the first you include the armed forces and leave the industry outside (but really don't), in the second in theory you don't include the armed forces but in practice you will always do. The communism has always been imposed  by arms or be held by them and you either integrate them deep into the party or have your ass kicked out by them.

[Cheesy Honkers]

Assuming that:
  Left = Share what other people have (no matter if they want or not) with strangers
  Right = Protect what you have against strangers

That's more accurate on how it's done in real life.

The main difference in facism and communism is that in the first you include the armed forces and leave the industry outside (but really don't), in the second in theory you don't include the armed forces but in practice you will always do. The communism has always been imposed  by arms or be held by them and you either integrate them deep into the party or have your ass kicked out by them.

"Why are those filthy plebs taking our factories away? Why don't they make their own? Maybe they'll want to steal our slaves next? I'm literally shaking rn"

[Loud Whispers]

"Why are those filthy plebs taking our factories away? Why don't they make their own? Maybe they'll want to steal our slaves next? I'm literally shaking rn"

There's a godly quote from a Victorian industrialist complaining in the papers that the new anti-child labour laws were going to empty his factories of cheap workers. The thought that these children would be going to school and becoming the engineers making him vastly wealthier anyways never crosses his mind

[JoshuaFH]

That's the thing about greed, it'd rather take a dime right now right than 1,000 dollars tomorrow. Myopia is the telltale trait of an evil mindset.

[ChristianWeiseth]

I love Colombia, awesome country, Fascism is correct for Latin America just as Socialism can be correct for Europe and USA or most likely a mix of the two, I dont really care who wins between socialists/fascists as long as the Goldman Sachs/Soros NGO's/WTO and all the capitalist banks fail.

[Cheesy Honkers]

I wish this had a /s.

[Magistrum]

So, here is the thing, is he genuinely misguided or ignorant about it, and then we should explain it to him; or is he a mid-grade troll pulling a fast one on us?