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[Teneb]

Or could just be making a show of it, because politics.

No. In South America, reactionaries are showing extreme christian fanaticism. Hell, the Brazilian Minister of Exterior (I guess it would be minister of foreign relations or whatever staters call theirs) is often called the Templar Minister because of how he spouts fanatic rethoric (including Deus Vult)... and he still pales compared to the Pocket Fascist himself.

So she ain't making a show of it. Odds are she truly believes Christianity is "under attack" and that she is restoring it to its rightful place of hegemony.

[Cheesy Honkers]

my post is, as PM astutely noted pure mockery devoid of any information scratch that of my opinion towards the coup

there is no point in making a long detailed post if the responses will amount to accusing me of supporting deadly evil communist dictatorships. discussion doesnt work if nobody wants to change their minds

besides, i really do not see what kind of discussion could this become. there's not much to be fucking said about a literal military coup to oust a democratically elected president. to claim that the coup was a good thing for democracy without good reason is the hottest take of the week.

i will not bother to put any effort into debating arguments that do not exist.

This really appears to me to be based off of a refusal to take anyone else in good faith — I’ve been trying my best to engage with other people in the thread honestly, but you’re basically making up a narrative out of whole cloth here that you’re going to get dogpiled on if you dare to invest any effort when that quite clearly isn’t the case based on the overall discussion in the thread. Like... look, I don’t spend a lot of time in the political threads down here because I often have similar worries, it’s not like you HAVE to immerse yourself in these discussions, but to come in and throw nothing out but mockery and accusations and ignore what isn’t favorable to said accusations and then further act like that’s the right thing to do is something that I find myself resenting somewhat, because it’s largely my own efforts I feel are being ignored. I mean, like, yeah, Baal is definitely mostly throwing out anti-socialist invective, but that’s pretty much just him

I'm sorry about that. I'd been pretty frustrated yesterday, so that's probably where the belligerence came from. Below I have made a post mostly devoid of mockery.

His canditature wasn't legal to being with. He made a referendum to ask if he could run for a FOURTH term and he lost, but then simply wiped his ass with the results and asked his friends of the supreme court to allow him anyway.

To say that Morales packed the Supreme Court is disingenous. To say that that is proof of breach of democracy is to say that there is no democracy in Canada or the United States because the members of the highest judiscial branch (the Supreme Court) are picked by Head of State. The Supreme Court ruled that Morales may be stand in the election and so he did.

Then as he was lossing he tried to tamper with the elections and got caught....

The OAS found no evidence for election fraud. None. All they found were irregularities that led them to recommend a run-off election.
Morales offered a second election. The break in vote counts coincides with Mesa's (the second most popular candidate) boys setting fire to polling centers.

Well the military merely suggested him to renounce. (...) People protested in the streets until he resigned. The police and military refused orders to suppress protesters with deadly force...

Your two claims contradict each other. If the military decides to suggest things in political matters then the suggestion is intrinsically a threat. If Morales said no I'm pretty sure he'd get to experience what Allende did at the hands of Pinochet (yet another persuasive military chap). There's a reason why he's in exile in Mexice right now. The army & police have already rounded up multiple members of government. On what authority are they acting if not their own? They rule Bolivia now. They decide who gets to become puppet President.

Sources:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/10/evo-morales-concedes-to-new-elections-after-serious-irregularities-found
https://www.thenation.com/article/bolivia-elections-morales/
https://www.lostiempos.com/actualidad/pais/20171129/tribunal-constitucional-avala-reeleccion-indefinida-evo-morales
https://elpais.com/internacional/2019/11/10/actualidad/1573386514_263233.html
https://www.notimerica.com/politica/noticia-bolivia-detenidos-25-miembros-tribunales-electorales-irregularidades-comicios-presidenciales-20191111172213.html

[smjjames]

Well the military merely suggested him to renounce. (...) People protested in the streets until he resigned. The police and military refused orders to suppress protesters with deadly force...

Your two claims contradict each other. If the military decides to suggest things in political matters then the suggestion is intrinsically a threat. If Morales said no I'm pretty sure he'd get to experience what Allende did at the hands of Pinochet (yet another persuasive military chap). There's a reason why he's in exile in Mexice right now. The army & police have already rounded up multiple members of government. On what authority are they acting if not their own? They rule Bolivia now. They decide who gets to become puppet President.

Sources:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/10/evo-morales-concedes-to-new-elections-after-serious-irregularities-found
https://www.thenation.com/article/bolivia-elections-morales/
https://www.lostiempos.com/actualidad/pais/20171129/tribunal-constitucional-avala-reeleccion-indefinida-evo-morales
https://elpais.com/internacional/2019/11/10/actualidad/1573386514_263233.html
https://www.notimerica.com/politica/noticia-bolivia-detenidos-25-miembros-tribunales-electorales-irregularidades-comicios-presidenciales-20191111172213.html

I didn't know that information about detaining multiple members of government, which does make the whole thing very military coup-y even if they didn't instignate it themselves.

[LordBaal]

What? The OEA did found irregularities on the elections, whcih are a sumple euphemism for fraud. If you are willing to disregard that off the bat then there's nothing further we can discuss.

And if there was a coup it was right there when he flexed his arm to get into the election anyway despite the referendum saying no by a flimsy constitution interpretation, read that as the whole country saying NO. So is democracy as long people are willig to tolerate me.

[Cheesy Honkers]

'no u coup'

[MetalSlimeHunt]

"Why would Bolivians support the best leader they've ever had and the only one from the majority ethnic group? IT *clap* MAKES *clap* NO *clap* SENSE *clap*"

[Doomblade187]

"Why would Bolivians support the best leader they've ever had and the only one from the majority ethnic group? IT *clap* MAKES *clap* NO *clap* SENSE *clap*"

Well, they did vote down the term limit override. I would argue that instead of pushing for a fourth (?) term, Morales should have just named a political successor and tried to get them elected.

[LordBaal]

'no u coup'

"Why would Bolivians support the best leader they've ever had and the only one from the majority ethnic group? IT *clap* MAKES *clap* NO *clap* SENSE *clap*"

Well, they did vote down the term limit override. I would argue that instead of pushing for a fourth (?) term, Morales should have just named a political successor and tried to get them elected.

This, a thousand times this. It would probably meant the extension of the communist regime but it would also probably made it had a lot cleaner face both internaly and internationally.

[Cheesy Honkers]

'no u coup'

*gif snipped for memory on mobile*

dude you're literally saying that the military overthrowing the government is NOT a coup but a dude being allowed to participate IS a coup

what the fuck do you expect? a clever rebuttal?

[LordBaal]

The military didn't overthrew him, not directly at least. All this is the result of his own, very horrible choices and forcing himself on the presidency after openly questioning the whole darn country about it and getting a NOPE for an answer. And after that then the coup per se was consumed by trying to steal the elections ffs.

Then he "run for his life", something he himself described a few year ago as something only the criminals do.

Now, on a personal level I wasn't mad or anything ar your response, in fact I found it genuinely funny, I didn't take it as bad as you seem to think.

[smjjames]

Not sure self-coup is actually a thing. An own goal or self-own, sure, but the definition you're trying to apply is like the opposite of the second generally non-political definition of coup.

[Cheesy Honkers]

The military didn't overthrew him, not directly at least. All this is the result of his own, very horrible choices and forcing himself on the presidency after openly questioning the whole darn country about it and getting a NOPE for an answer. And after that then the coup per se was consumed by trying to steal the elections ffs.

Then he "run for his life", something he himself described a few year ago as something only the criminals do.

Now, on a personal level I wasn't mad or anything ar your response, in fact I found it genuinely funny, I didn't take it as bad as you seem to think.

Well the military merely suggested him to renounce.

There's a reason why he's in exile in Mexico* right now. The army & police have already rounded up multiple members of government.

* fixed typo

um dude military is gathering up military opponents and you fuggen say that only criminals run. i dunno about you but id rather not be tortured and killed and evo more than likely shares that sentiment.

ive already explained why and how he ran for president. it was shady, but not more than the usual in politics. i feel like im repeating myself a lot but if you believe that the military stepping in and letting some random senator christian fanatic declare herself president is more legal, more moral and less shady than a second election then i applaud your modern perspective of democracy as meaningless buzzword

[smjjames]

To be fair, he IS coming from the viewpoint of being in Venezuela, so, his experience is colored by that.

As for the Bolivian Senator, they didn't go 'I Declare myself President!' and plant the flag in the ground, they used a pre-existing succession system. Whether that move (or the succession system) was constitutional in Bolivia, I have no idea as I have no knowledge about it. Apparently the entire Bolivian Supreme Court signed off on it.

[Cheesy Honkers]

Oh, are the decisions of the Supreme Court valid now? I seem to have missed the point when they turned from Evo's cronies to upholders of the law.

The constitution has already been abrogated when (I know I repeat myself a lot but bear with me) the military 'suggested' that Evo resign. The brass has already vowed to restore order in El Alto, the second largest city of Bolivia populated mostly by the Aimara, the people that overwhelmingly supported Morales' government.

EDIT: Some more reading material for those interested:
https://www.france24.com/es/20191112-bolivia-choques-policia-evo-mortales

[smjjames]

All I'm saying is that I heard something about it, you clearly know a lot more than I do about what's going on.