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Author Topic: Minimalist Nomic  (Read 1263 times)

Person

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Minimalist Nomic
« on: March 19, 2016, 03:35:29 pm »

Spoiler: Set of Rules (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Set of Players (click to show/hide)
As you can see, this is a game of Nomic. I've created blatantly stolen assembled a more simplistic set of initial rules from various sources for this iteration.
You should note that turns are not a thing, so the game is live at all times. This is probably a terrible decision on my part, but I won't be participating in any position of power. My only responsibility? Update this post (and the one after it) as appropriate.
You should also note that all rule changes are currently only possible through unanimous agreement. I doubt anyone really wants that.
The idle system may be a good safety net to prevent deadlock, but its not perfect.
I recommend players focus their changes on rule 8, so that we all may choose a preferred method of changing the rules.
Aside from that, here's some guide lines to make the game probably more fun for all of us.

1: One thing to avoid is rules that involve grinding or other actions that are basically mandatory, even if they're technically optional. (Ex: Once a day, players can gain a point by saying "Banana".) I hope we at least learned something with the farming debacle from last game.
2: Try to keep numbers small. There's probably no good reason to start in the triple digits. Again, farming. There's nothing inherently wrong with numbers, even large ones, but use discretion.
3: Try to think of a goal for yourself and others to work towards. Multiple goals would be even better.
4: If things are stale and unworkable, don't be afraid to remove rules. The idea that "we put so much work into this, and I'd hate for it to be wasted" isn't really a tenable one. Change is a good thing sometimes.
5: Don't touch most of the really early rules without a good reason. This mostly refers to 1 through 5. "Then why have them at all" you ask? Because reasons. That's why.
6: Rule 3 technically allows for things not in this thread to become game state. I would not recommend this personally for obvious reasons, but I won't stop you. Its not like I have the authority to do so after all. In the event that we get close to reaching some sort of post per thread limit (unlikely), this (along with rule 1) should obviously be changed posthaste (pun intended).
7: There is currently no syntax to how rules are changed. All players must simply agree to a change. Consider quoting a change and posting "I agree", until a better system surfaces.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 03:08:15 pm by Person »
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Re: Minimalist Nomic
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2016, 03:35:47 pm »

Reserved because of the usual reasons.
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Re: Minimalist Nomic
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2016, 03:36:03 pm »

And one more reserve just in case.
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Re: Minimalist Nomic
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2016, 04:01:11 pm »

PTW.
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MonkeyMarkMario

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Re: Minimalist Nomic
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2016, 04:04:07 pm »

Proposal 1: I propose that all future proposals be # and bold.
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Any future games will be simpler in nature, I have a bad habit of biting off more than I can chew. Also hoping for more players in them.

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Re: Minimalist Nomic
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2016, 04:06:58 pm »

Proposal 2: All future proposals require at least 2 votes to pass with a majority
ex. 2 for 3 against fail
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My Forum game(s):
Hahaha, ya right

Any future games will be simpler in nature, I have a bad habit of biting off more than I can chew. Also hoping for more players in them.

I have Discord for my games now(not necessary to play, tho might be easier to contact me): https://discord.gg/DuaARAZ

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Re: Minimalist Nomic
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2016, 04:44:49 pm »

Proposal 1: I propose that all future proposals be # and bold.
I agree with this proposal. It passes. Note that what a proposal being # means is undefined. However, I'll assume that means "numbered". Of course, the number doesn't actually matter.

Proposal 2: All future proposals require at least 2 votes to pass with a majority
ex. 2 for 3 against fail

Votes are not currently defined. Also, one cannot be "against" things as of yet. So I don't agree, not that that means anything.
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Re: Minimalist Nomic
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2016, 04:52:52 pm »

Proposal 3: Change rule 9 such that it reads "A proposal is a change to the rules. All future proposals be numbered and bold. The numbers used should be in sequential order, starting with 1."

Proposal 4: Change rule 8 such that it reads "Whenever a change to the rules is suggested, all non-idle players must vote on it. Valid votes are Support, Oppose, and Abstain. Abstain is the default. The votes on a change to the rules must consist of at least 51% Support in order for it to be enacted. A change to the rules cannot be enacted until at least 15 minutes passes."

Remember, nothing can be truly "assumed". The rules are very loose at the moment.
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Re: Minimalist Nomic
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2016, 05:39:17 pm »

Objection: Having posted in this thread, I am a player as per Rule 2.
Therefore the agreement on Proposal 1 was not unaminous.
As per Rule 8, a unaminous vote by all (non-idle) players is required for a proposal to pass.
Therefore Proposal 1 has not passed.
I agree with proposal 1. Therefore, it now passes.

I agree with proposals 3 and 4.
Please note the following objections to proposal 4:
- there is no gameplay reason to oppose a proposal, except to register your dislike.
- The following should be added to the final sentence of proposal 4: "... since the proposal was posted in the thread"
« Last Edit: March 19, 2016, 05:42:28 pm by TopHat »
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Re: Minimalist Nomic
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2016, 05:55:24 pm »

Hmm. Interesting argument. Not sure how to feel about that but it seems valid.

Edit: Oh wait I totally missed your PTW. I'm an idiot.

By the by, I feel like a suggestion to change the rules should be resolved once it passes. As the rules are now, its possible that whenever a new player joins that since that player hasn't agreed to a past change to the rules, that it stops being in effect. That shouldn't be the case. How should we go about fixing that? (Note that until "proposal" 3 passes, the word proposal is meaningless. Its just the way we've decided to format a "change to the rules".) Also you'll have to reword proposal 4 after the fact.

Proposal 5: When new rules are added, small corrections to grammar, syntax and spelling can be made to those rules if at least 50% of all non-idle players agree that those changes don't alter the effects of those rules.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2016, 06:04:35 pm by Person »
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Re: Minimalist Nomic
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2016, 06:05:35 pm »

I also agree with proposals 1, 3, and 4, suddenly being a player. I suggest that proposal 4 be implemented swiftly so that every new player does not have to also agree with proposals 1, 3, and 4.
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Re: Minimalist Nomic
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2016, 06:09:20 pm »

PTw
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Re: Minimalist Nomic
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2016, 06:25:16 pm »

(I've made a terrible mistake with these rules. I love it.)
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Re: Minimalist Nomic
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2016, 02:38:02 pm »

Quote
By the by, I feel like a suggestion to change the rules should be resolved once it passes. As the rules are now, its possible that whenever a new player joins that since that player hasn't agreed to a past change to the rules, that it stops being in effect. That shouldn't be the case. How should we go about fixing that? (Note that until "proposal" 3 passes, the word proposal is meaningless. Its just the way we've decided to format a "change to the rules".) Also you'll have to reword proposal 4 after the fact.

As I interpret it, once the rules have been changed support for that change is irrelevent. The change is now part of the rules and cannot be removed without changing the rules further. At present, such a change can only be effected by unaminous vote.
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I would ask why fire can burn two men to death without getting hot enough to burn a book, but then I read "INEXTINGUISHABLE RUNNING KAMIKAZE RADIOACTIVE FLAMING ZOMBIE" and realized that logic, reason, and physics are all occupied with crying in the corner right now.

Iituem

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Re: Minimalist Nomic
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2016, 03:29:07 pm »

I agree with Proposals 1, 3, 4 and 5.

Proposal 6: Once a unanimous agreement of all players in the game at that moment in time has been achieved to pass a Proposal, that Proposal remains passed until an explicit proposal is made to change it, regardless of the addition or dissent of future players.  To clarify; once a proposal has been passed, it may not be un-passed save by a new proposal.

You may now remove me from the set of players.  As far as I can tell, however, my proposal is still a valid proposal.
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