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[DaviBones]

I am trying to set up 3x3 stockpiles in my metalworking area for specific bars/ores. The ores work fine, but I am having serious trouble getting my dwarves to fill the "bars" stockpile (and also the one goblinite armor/weapon stockpile). I believe this has something to do with the rules for bin usage, because the stockpiles work fine until I set them to not use bins. Here are the steps I've taken:

• Make a 3x3 stockpile, set it to hold only one type of bar, let's say copper for the sake of the example
• Set it to (t)ake from my main bar/block stockpile (which is set to use bins)
• Set max bins on feeder stockpile to zero

At which point the stockpile stays completely empty, regardless of how much copper I have. What I would like to happen is for 9 copper bars to be moved to the feeder stockpile, while any remaining copper bars stay in my main bar/block stockpile. Am I doing something wrong or is this an outstanding bug? Maybe I'm crazy but I swear I have gotten this to work perfectly in the past (probably in version 0.34.11, now using 0.42.06).

One last note: I have been using the "cutting edge" lazy newb pack, including the unstable alpha of DFhack. However even after switching off DFhack the problem persists, so I have doubts that it is to blame.

[Glitchy]

Dwarves move items to their closest stockpile. If that isn't full. They usually will not move the item to another stockpile. It could be that your main stockpile isn't full. So they won't move any copper to your second (feeder) stockpile.

[DaviBones]

Except that it works just fine when I set max bins to 9... They move all the copper from the main stockpile into bins in the feeder stockpile. It just stops working when I turn bins off (they move all the bins back to the main stockpile and leave the feeder stockpile empty).

[Glitchy]

Is there a reason you don't want bins in your feeder stockpile? It does sound like a bin AI issue.

[DaviBones]

When I have bins in the feeder stockpiles I get job cancellation spam from no available materials when the bins are in use for some other reason, also I like the visual indicator of how much metal is left. Granted those are both somewhat minor conveniences but it seems like what I'm doing should work and like I said I swear I've gotten it to work before.

[Salmeuk]

From personal experience I've found dwarves to not like moving things from a bin-using stockpile to one that has no bins. I agree that no bins make for a nice visual stock indicator, so perhaps try the setup again except without any bins anywhere.

[DaviBones]

Yeah that's one way of doing it that certainly works, although it definitely requires a larger main stockpile. I will probably take that route though, it would work reasonably well and look nice and organized if you set up different stockpiles for each metal. I also found that if you set the feeder stockpile to take from the main stockpiles AND the workshops that produce the items (in this case, the smelters) you can get the dorfs to fill the feeder stockpile from the workshop, although they still won't move stuff out of the binned stockpile into the unbinned one. I think that's what I had been doing previously.

Anyway does anyone know if the inability to move from binned stockpiles to unbinned ones is a bug ToadyOne plans to fix? I couldn't find it on the bug tracker anywhere (although my internet-fu might lacking), perhaps I could post it?

[martinuzz]

You could use no bins at all, instead use minecart-fed single tile stockpiles for everything, and make your feeder stockpiles take from those if you want to have a visual indicator like you said. My current fort has 1 bin. Artefact. It's on display in a bin stockpile in my throne room. My queen likes bins.

If you want, look at my fort (42.06) for an example: http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=11861

[PatrikLundell]

martinuzz beat me to it...
I'd use a mine cart Quantum Stockpile for the main stockpile. It will be bin-less, and thus won't have any problems feeding the particular stockpiles.
I'd also consider using either the DFHack alt-a method to specify material to use for jobs, or the 0.42.06 vanilla method (I'm still on 0.42.05, so I haven't tried that one yet).

[greycat]

From personal experience I've found dwarves to not like moving things from a bin-using stockpile to one that has no bins.

This.  Moreover, if the items are in a bin at all, whether stockpiled or not, dwarves will not remove them from their bin to store them in a no-bin stockpile.  They will haul the whole bin, or nothing.

You could manually dump them to get them out of the bin, and then reclaim them.

I fully agree with everyone who says to use minecart quantum stockpiles.  They are the best.

[Mostali]

From personal experience I've found dwarves to not like moving things from a bin-using stockpile to one that has no bins.

This.  Moreover, if the items are in a bin at all, whether stockpiled or not, dwarves will not remove them from their bin to store them in a no-bin stockpile.  They will haul the whole bin, or nothing.

I've only ever found one condition for them to move from a "bin" to a "non-bin" stockpile, and that's by excluding the material/item from the "bin" stockpile .  The "bin" stockpile also seems to have to otherwise be acceptable - i.e. allows bins and some category is enabled, even if everything in the category is blocked.  The same goes for removing from barrels.

A tedious way for the OP to use this is to have two "bin" stockpiles, each set to accept bars from links only (smelters).  Once a "bin" stockpile has some copper, exclude the copper from that stockpile while still allowing copper to the other.  Dwarves will move copper out of the bins to an acceptable location - meaning the "non-bin" stockpile.  Once the "non-bin" stockpile is full and there are no other acceptable destinations, they will stop.  Meanwhile the second "bin" stockpile is still taking copper from the smelters.  Once the excluded stockpile runs out of copper, re-allow copper in it, and exclude copper from the other.  Repeat until you grow weary of the micromanagement.

edit:grammar

[martinuzz]

Oh btw, you can empty out your bins by dumping their contents. Fastest way is to d-b-d-Enter-Enter over the bin, then k-d over it to cancel the dump order for the bin itself. Your dwarves will now come and dump all the contents out of the bin, into your garbage dump. Except artefacts, which cannot be dumped. Never store artefacts in bins.

[Mostali]

Dumping works too.  I think (not positive) that normal stockpile movement has a higher priority than dumping.  It just seems that way to me because I often find my dwarves haven't dumped old clothes as I demanded asked.  Also, you can exclude artifacts from a binned stockpile and have a non-binned artifact-only stockpile waiting and they will move the artifact.  I display wondrous items - like artifact glass animal traps, and artifact pig-tail loin-clothes - that my dwarves are so fond of making, in dining halls and taverns.  I like to think it reminds them just how ridiculous they really are sometimes.

[DaviBones]

Thank you all for the awesome suggestions and tips! Martinuzz, that way of dumping items in bins is a lifesaver, I had no idea that d-b-d would designate the items inside the bin for dumping too, pretty slick. And I have a tip for some of you as well: you can get artifacts out of bins quite easily by sending the bin in question to the trade depot: the dwarves will drop the artifact on the floor, refusing to trade their precious kitten bone scepter!

I probably won't use quantum stockpiles, enormous halls full of random junk thrown on the ground just feels more dwarfy to me but to each his own, I'm sure QSPs are amazing in many other ways also.

For anyone curious, I did actually end up getting rid of the bins on my main bar stockpile, and separating it out into ~30 tile stockpiles for each metal/alloy I am using. Looks pretty slick imho, I highly recommend it for anyone else that shares my sentiment on quantum stockpiles.

[Melting Sky]

Is there a reason you don't want bins in your feeder stockpile? It does sound like a bin AI issue.

Bins are very buggy. I have learned to avoid using them at all costs.