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[LMeire]

Don't you get temples inns etc in the old version too?

...

Only if you're talking about the modded workshops, Toady's libraries, temples, and inns are "locations"- collections of zones that idling dwarves visit to meet their various social needs like reading about animal reproduction, organized dancing, and hearing bards recite poetry.

[Putnam]

Don't you get temples inns etc in the old version too?

Not in any way that's even remotely satisfying.

[DG123]

Hmm. Interesting, though I'd prefer some additions to make it easier to keep your dwarves safe.

I keep having massive armies of undead appear out of nowhere and there's no way to get everyone burrowed before someone gets killed.

Also they tend to show up at the same time as caravans. It's ridiculous.

[LMeire]

Hmm. Interesting, though I'd prefer some additions to make it easier to keep your dwarves safe.

I keep having massive armies of undead appear out of nowhere and there's no way to get everyone burrowed before someone gets killed.

Also they tend to show up at the same time as caravans. It's ridiculous.

Zombies got heavily nerfed in the latest release, they can only make mindless charge attacks and never block or dodge.

[DG123]

Potentially silly question, but what is Ebony in Dwarf Fortress?

I can't find the material on the wiki or in the Masterwork manual.

I got my hands on a sword made of it. I have no idea if I'm dealing with a wooden training weapon (doesn't say training) or something super lethal.

[Putnam]

Almost definitely a Masterwork thing.

It's either a wood or a very good metal.

[WJSabey]

1. Player defined Temples, Inns, Taverns where your dwarfs go to socialize, dance, drink and invite wanderers from other civilizations to patronize your establishment and possibly petition to join your fortress.
2. New personality system.
3. Multi-z-level trees.
4. Sexual-orientation.  Single-sex, dual-sex, no-sex attraction.
5. New skills: Dancing, Story telling, climbing, etc
6. New emotion system
7. Wars!!!!!

..and much more!

None of that sounds at all compelling. Unless "much more!" includes fixes for some of the long-standing issues the game has, the choice would seem to come down entirely to what the different versions of Masterwork offer.

• Is the reborn one as mature as the old one?
• Is the old one being developed any more, or is it being retired?
• If they are both still developed, are either of them safe from updates breaking save games?

[DG123]

I must say that much more appreciated features would be such things as making it possible to staff siege weapons with military dwarves (or at least not have the crew run away), making it possible to customise the miner and hunter uniforms so you can armour them, making dwarves less stupid so that they only ever become emotionally attached to weapons which don't suck, and various other things that would reduce the frustration level no end.

Like maybe making it possible to directly choose a specific weapon to upgrade in the Weaponry or Rune weaponry, rather than screwing around with stockpiles.

Masterwork wasn't lacking in features. It just needed polish to make them easier to use.

[Putnam]

1. Player defined Temples, Inns, Taverns where your dwarfs go to socialize, dance, drink and invite wanderers from other civilizations to patronize your establishment and possibly petition to join your fortress.
2. New personality system.
3. Multi-z-level trees.
4. Sexual-orientation.  Single-sex, dual-sex, no-sex attraction.
5. New skills: Dancing, Story telling, climbing, etc
6. New emotion system
7. Wars!!!!!

..and much more!

None of that sounds at all compelling.

Then why are you here?

Also, it neglects to mention the whole "reactions can now have descriptions" thing.

If they are both still developed, are either of them safe from updates breaking save games?

Nothing can ever prevent mods from breaking saves. They sorta do it by nature. The only reason DF can manage to avoid it is Toady specifically writing stuff in to prevent breakage if the raws changed or just not changing the raws (which is what modding is.)

I must say that much more appreciated features would be such things as making it possible to staff siege weapons with military dwarves (or at least not have the crew run away), making it possible to customise the miner and hunter uniforms so you can armour them, making dwarves less stupid so that they only ever become emotionally attached to weapons which don't suck, and various other things that would reduce the frustration level no end.

Not possible with modding, but emotional attachment doesn't matter as much now.

Like maybe making it possible to directly choose a specific weapon to upgrade in the Weaponry or Rune weaponry, rather than screwing around with stockpiles.

0.42.01 made this possible to do with modding in a non-awful way by using categories and DF 0.42.06 added this feature by default.

[WJSabey]

Then why are you here?

Not for gay dwarves, that's for damn sure. Why should I give a crap if my dwarves are all straight? Was it really hurting fortresses enough to be worth listing as a selling point of the new version?

Also, it neglects to mention the whole "reactions can now have descriptions" thing.

That's somewhat convenient, but it's not like we aren't all used to playing with the manual at hand. Still a bigger deal than gay dwarves, though.

Nothing can ever prevent mods from breaking saves. They sorta do it by nature. The only reason DF can manage to avoid it is Toady specifically writing stuff in to prevent breakage if the raws changed or just not changing the raws (which is what modding is.)

Thank you for the condescending explanation of what modding is. You failed to mention, however, that there are kinds of modding that are, and kinds of modding that aren't, savegame-safe. For example, adding new reactions requires a new world. Modifying reactions doesn't. The question is obviously asking if there are any changes planned that will break existing saves.

Not possible with modding, but emotional attachment doesn't matter as much now.

What does modding have to do with it? The discussion was about the relative merits of v.34 and v.40 of DF, and the fact that the advertised changes seem largely pointless, considering the number of outstanding problems the game has. That was just an example of something that could have been fixed, but apparently hasn't been. Instead we get gay dwarves.

0.42.01 made this possible to do with modding in a non-awful way by using categories and DF 0.42.06 added this feature by default.

Now that sounds actually interesting. More interesting than gay dwarves, anyway.

(I hope nobody was offended by my "gay dwarves" running gag. I'm just a little gob-smacked that anyone would consider it a high selling point of the new version. As the overseer of a dwarven fortress-town, I just don't see why I should even know the orientation of my subjects/minions, let alone care. As far as I'm concerned, it's a minor effect on procreation, nothing more, and certainly not one of the top 7 selling points of the game)

[Putnam]

Dwarf Fortress isn't a dungeon keeper clone. Fortress keeping is more an avenue for interaction with the world at large than game in and of itself. Minor balance issues regarding weapon attachment that was completely blown to the wayside by the personality/emotion overhaul (which i mentioned but apparently went ignored) should very much take the backseat to gay dwarves. The dwarves are more the point than the fortress.

I'm competely gob-smacked tthat anyone would complain about the development process of the game when there is so much that tells them what they're getting into. Like I said, this isn't a dungeon keeper clone. This is a fantasy world simulator 42% of the way to being feature complete. Play Masterwork or, hell, one of the actual dungeon keeper clones around if you want one, but don't complain about the direction of DF when it doesn't turn out to be one. There's plenty of warning.

[WJSabey]

What, so just because everybody knows that Toady doesn't understand game design/software development procedure, nobody can complain about it? If something is broken, fixing it should be a higher priority than adding new stuff, especially stuff that has such a negligible effect on gameplay.

[Putnam]

No, I didn't say that at all.

[Rekov]

What, so just because everybody knows that Toady doesn't understand game design/software development procedure, nobody can complain about it? If something is broken, fixing it should be a higher priority than adding new stuff, especially stuff that has such a negligible effect on gameplay.

• This probably isn't the appropriate thread to make this point in.
• I don't think Toady has ever claimed or pretended to be doing this for anyone's sake other than his own. We should be glad that he has created something we all enjoy so much, we should be glad that Toady continues to be interested in working on this project, and while we should feel encouraged to make suggestions, we should understand that we don't want to drive Toady away by making this uninteresting and unrewarding for him.

[jimboo]

Many of the “what if/is this possible?” scenarios have been covered in other threads, polls and such but odds are, it’s still a do-over when Meph returns. 

Also, it neglects to mention the whole "reactions can now have descriptions" thing.

And – seriously neat, that, but let’s all get together and make sure Meph doesn’t follow through on his initial comment that descriptions “make the Manual unnecessary.”  [I don’t play all that often and still get tripped up when one part of the Manual refers me to another part … that no longer exists.]  I’m a fan of cafeteria-style play: if you don’t like something, don’t use it in your fortress.  Easy enough and I don’t miss the armored, 20-year-old sauropod superstompers all that much.  (Well, anymore.)  Vanilla just keeps getting better, MasterAnyWork is better still, Reborn is likely the only path forward so, players will need to either express again what we like/dislike/want brought back/tweaked or all learn to mod like a Putnam.