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Just run the game without a co-mod. You can handle it, yeh? Pros: !!insanity, fun!!, Cons: Game might not go so well, roles might be unbalanced.

8 (53.3%)

Seek out a new co-mod. You might need it. Pros: sanity, good design, general boost, Cons: less !!insanity!!.

3 (20%)

I have no opinion on the matter.

4 (26.7%)

Total Members Voted: 15

[BlackHeartKabal]

We have several leads from what I can see. For example, you brought up NQT confirming himself so as to coordinate the town back in day 1. NQT's confirmed now and gave his suspicions before he died, so do you plan on following up on them?

I'll search for the post and follow what's likely, and he's a seasoned player, so I'd trust his suspicions a bit more, especially with him being confirmed town. Still Day 1 suspicions though, that I should factor in.

[Jack A T]

Deus: So you're the one behind the failed block that NQT wanted information on.  Hm.  Why did you try to block NQT and why claim this now (not earlier or later)?

[Tiruin]

Recklessness in pursuit of information.

Digging up NQT quotes right now.

Quickposting, but to address BHK since he seems sincere about it--this is what NQT does...regardless of his alignment @_@ so the emotional backlash of regret is mixed with logical endeavors of insight and reflection. However to also address BHK's impactful comment of 'Jack only claimed after the hammer'...which is reasonably valid, it doesn't seem to be an impactful implication when applied in context because NOBODY actually brought it up until after a few posts and NQT himself popping up, at around 10+ posts post-hammer.

PFP

Why would someone ever lie if they're town?

Contextually--its not a sweeping generalization of honesty-high-ground; town can lie to provoke scum, however in this context...this question is better asked to NQT, however also good to be asked in game to get others' reactions, as I cannot fathom the merit or credit responsibly gained for the town effort (given that we now know NQT is town :V) given that response.

I mean if I died, I'd usually tell everything before I die.

Though on behalf of NQT--given the LACK of many things, he only went along his own theories (ie TIRUIN MAY BE SCUM D: ...and nothing more) [/TheRaven], though in a particularly pointed way that didn't help anyone because of lacking OTHER details in why he's got that in mind.

But sometimes, people get pressured and things like these come out (oh dear DO I remember my first Mafia games...), and this is my best reasoning on how I saw it.

[griffinpup]

Jack:

griffinpup: So, what does that say/what did you think that said about NQT's arguments about Deus?
Also, which components of BHK's explanation of his hammer do you most trust?  Which do you least trust?  Why?

Ask less boring questions... Try questions that could conceivably be useful in the future.  Maybe stuff that would add more information.  I don't want to compare info to NQT's thoughts, when you could just do the same.  And... read my posts for the answer to that other one?

[Jack A T]

However to also address BHK's impactful comment of 'Jack only claimed after the hammer'...which is reasonably valid

Did nobody read the claim I gave when I voted?

Jack:

griffinpup: So, what does that say/what did you think that said about NQT's arguments about Deus?
Also, which components of BHK's explanation of his hammer do you most trust?  Which do you least trust?  Why?

Ask less boring questions... Try questions that could conceivably be useful in the future.  Maybe stuff that would add more information.  I don't want to compare info to NQT's thoughts, when you could just do the same.  And... read my posts for the answer to that other one?

Griffinpup: Oh joy.  You've decided you won't answer because you don't want to and because you cannot conceive of them being useful (which says more about you than about anything else).  Is this why you just ignored them initially?

Shockingly, I have reasons for asking the questions I ask.  I'm not trying to get a mere comparison of NQT's thoughts and info.  I can do that easily.  Hell, I did it in that post, though you seem not to have noticed.
You're interested in the NQT/Deus issue, though, and you commented on it.  You obviously have some thoughts on the matter.  Let's see them fleshed out.  Like any good player, I want to dig deeper into your thoughts and positions.  I want to make you take positions on the record, and I want your positions to be fleshed out.  I want to make you generate info about you.

Just reading your posts for the BHK matter is not enough.  It was (and, to a certain extent, is) a developing situation, like many, and your statements were each in reaction to the most immediate comment.  Each new BHK statement was the sort that should have impacted (positively or negatively) interpretations of the preceding statements.  Getting your post-dispute position on each element gives the town novel information on you.  Getting it on the record eliminates much of the wiggle room that comes from disputable implications, too.

When players use the flimsiest of excuses to stymie the information-gathering process and avoid answering questions, it is rather troubling, to say the least.

Now, answer the questions.

[Jack A T]

Also, boring?  Seriously?

[griffinpup]

Jack: *sigh* I'm not really in the mood, but fine.  I will give you answers, and afterwards you get to explain to me why there's so importantly useful!

Jack:

griffinpup: So, what does that say/what did you think that said about NQT's arguments about Deus?
Also, which components of BHK's explanation of his hammer do you most trust?  Which do you least trust?  Why?

Ask less boring questions... Try questions that could conceivably be useful in the future.  Maybe stuff that would add more information.  I don't want to compare info to NQT's thoughts, when you could just do the same.  And... read my posts for the answer to that other one?

Griffinpup: Oh joy.  You've decided you won't answer because you don't want to and because you cannot conceive of them being useful (which says more about you than about anything else). 

So, you allude to this thing saying stuff about me, but you never actually say what it says... And then you compare it to some non-specific something else, which apparently also says something non-specific about me.  Cool.  I hope the fact that I don't really like wasting time helps you.

Is this why you just ignored them initially?

Pretty much.  The questions (especially the first one.  The second one is betterish) seem to have no validity, and were mostly time-wasters.

Shockingly, I have reasons for asking the questions I ask.

Shockingly, I had reasons for not wanting to answer them.

I'm not trying to get a mere comparison of NQT's thoughts and info.  I can do that easily.  Hell, I did it in that post, though you seem not to have noticed.

I'm glad you already have an answer to the question you asked me. Yep.

You're interested in the NQT/Deus issue, though, and you commented on it.  You obviously have some thoughts on the matter.  Let's see them fleshed out.

I'm not interested in that issue.  I think it's a fruitless and pointless issue.  I commented on it, once really...  I think my original comment was good enough.  Basically, NQT's statements end of day 2 weren't magic.  They didn't have unlimited truths in them.  All they were were assumptions based around game mechanics that were later proven to be false.  I don't get why people would be interested in this issue.  It's illogical.  And I hope this paragraph is fleshy enough for you.

Like any good player, I want to dig deeper into your thoughts and positions.

Welp.  You're not trying to dig deeper into everyone's thoughts and opinions.  Why am I so special?

I want to make you take positions on the record, and I want your positions to be fleshed out.  I want to make you generate info about you.

This seems a strange claim.  I've posted quite a bit, definitely more then most.  Why need you generate more info on me but practically ignore some lurkers?  In isolation your reason seems fine, but focusing on making me generate info seems completely non-intuitive.

Just reading your posts for the BHK matter is not enough.  It was (and, to a certain extent, is) a developing situation, like many, and your statements were each in reaction to the most immediate comment.  Each new BHK statement was the sort that should have impacted (positively or negatively) interpretations of the preceding statements.  Getting your post-dispute position on each element gives the town novel information on you.  Getting it on the record eliminates much of the wiggle room that comes from disputable implications, too.

I'm not really sure what you're wanting.  It seems pretty clear that BHK intentionally misled town about his reasons for voting.  I'm pretty sure I've already made it clear that I think that.  I'm not sure what else you want.

When players use the flimsiest of excuses to stymie the information-gathering process and avoid answering questions, it is rather troubling, to say the least.

You aren't really information gathering.  You're just making me restate stuff that I've already said, or talking about impertinent data from a guy whose entire outlook was colored by a flawed understanding of the mechanics system.

Now, answer the questions.

Rawr

Also, boring?  Seriously?

Yeah boring.  Asking me to talk about the theories of a guy who died forever ago, when his theories weren't even good(not his fault, necessarily), is boring.  Though, I admit I'm in a pretty combative mood right now.  So that leaks into my style of writing. As I'm sure you can tell.

[Jack A T]

griffinpup: This is going to be fun.  I love hamfisted deflection.

So, you allude to this thing saying stuff about me, but you never actually say what it says... And then you compare it to some non-specific something else, which apparently also says something non-specific about me.  Cool.  I hope the fact that I don't really like wasting time helps you.

You want to know exactly what this says about you?  Sure.  Here's some.  You're quite narrow-minded and, despite your very limited knowledge about the knowledge and intent of others (and thus what use they would make of your answers), you believe yourself to be the supreme arbiter of what is valuable in-game.  You have a surface-level view of questions, and cannot comprehend any deeper layers of value.

Is this why you just ignored them initially?

Pretty much.  The questions (especially the first one.  The second one is betterish) seem to have no validity, and were mostly time-wasters.

So, your initial silence was deliberate.  Interesting.  Why choose that tactic to avoid questions?

I'm not interested in that issue.  I think it's a fruitless and pointless issue.  I commented on it, once really...  I think my original comment was good enough.  Basically, NQT's statements end of day 2 weren't magic.  They didn't have unlimited truths in them.  All they were were assumptions based around game mechanics that were later proven to be false.  I don't get why people would be interested in this issue.  It's illogical.  And I hope this paragraph is fleshy enough for you.

Thank you, this is helpful.  Not what I was looking for, but helpful.  It helps me understand exactly where you were coming from when you stepped in to protect Deus (the main reason why I asked the question), and thus helps me understand your relationships with Wozzy and Deus (particularly the latter).  The substantial step you've made beyond your initial statement (specifically, going from the relatively weak 'not inherently right' of your initial statement to the stronger rejection here) is interesting.

I was hoping, though, to see the line of logic between NQT's mechanical error and the (now quite strong) rejection of his points about Deus.  In my own analysis, I saw the issue of NQT's kill immunity as largely irrelevant to his points about Deus.  NQT's error made him more certain, but was not the basis of his case.  Please tell me why you disagree.

Welp.  You're not trying to dig deeper into everyone's thoughts and opinions.  Why am I so special?
[...]
I've posted quite a bit, definitely more then most.  Why need you generate more info on me but practically ignore some lurkers?  In isolation your reason seems fine, but focusing on making me generate info seems completely non-intuitive.

First: I only just started focusing on you.  When I first asked you those questions, you were one among many people I was questioning.  In just that one post alone, I asked four of the seven available players questions.  Among them, lurkers and non-lurkers.  One of the top posters (BHK), the bottom poster (Deus), and two mid-frequency posters (you and Wozzy).  One I am awaiting the initial response of, two I am still handling followup questioning, and one concluded the resulting discussion with a major change of beliefs.  Since I made that post, I have continued to question a wider array of players.
To put it simply, this idea you have of me ignoring some lurkers is groundless bullshit and obviously so.  How did you come to this idea, exactly?

Second: There's a reason I am now focusing on you.  You are responding poorly to my questions.

Third: Deflecting to lurkers, I see.  I always love seeing this tactic.

I'm not really sure what you're wanting.  It seems pretty clear that BHK intentionally misled town about his reasons for voting.  I'm pretty sure I've already made it clear that I think that.  I'm not sure what else you want.

Ah.  I'll clarify.
We all know BHK misled town about the hammer, and did so intentionally.  He said so.  He's made several claims about what he did (both when hammering and when taroting), why he did it, and such, each building on the already-tangled pile of statements.  Your immediate reaction to most of BHK's points in the dispute was, essentially, strong disbelief.

What I want to see is your thoughts beyond the immediate.  I want to see the cohesive current position of the main player making the main case in the main wagon of the day.  This grants clarity and an unknown amount of new information, and it makes evaluation of the case against BHK easier.

Let's split the question into two questions that, in aggregate, are sort of similar:
*Aside from BHK's admission of misleading town, do you believe (or lean towards believing) any of BHK's various claims?  Why?
*What do you think really happened in the hammer affair?

[TheBiggerFish]

Wait, I'm NOT a top-frequency poster?  Why the carp am I being so quiet?

Everybody:Questions?

[4maskwolf]

Wait, I'm NOT a top-frequency poster?  Why the carp am I being so quiet?

Everybody:Questions?

I don't know, why the fish are you being so quiet?

[TheBiggerFish]

That's a good question.  I guess I don't have much to say that wouldn't basically be me repeating what someone else said (and honestly I'm kind of distracted by the start-of-summer freeform deluge a bit).

[4maskwolf]

Because he claimed he triggered a jailing that only triggers with kills, BHK.  I have no idea what you're trying to accomplish here but this is just...What even.

TBF: Why did you vote BNK again when your vote was already on him?

[TheBiggerFish]

For emphasis, mostly.

[griffinpup]

griffinpup: This is going to be fun.  I love hamfisted deflection.

So, you allude to this thing saying stuff about me, but you never actually say what it says... And then you compare it to some non-specific something else, which apparently also says something non-specific about me.  Cool.  I hope the fact that I don't really like wasting time helps you.

You want to know exactly what this says about you?  Sure.  Here's some.  You're quite narrow-minded and, despite your very limited knowledge about the knowledge and intent of others (and thus what use they would make of your answers), you believe yourself to be the supreme arbiter of what is valuable in-game.  You have a surface-level view of questions, and cannot comprehend any deeper layers of value.

You're kinda a toolbag.  But sure.  That's probably all good assumptions.

Is this why you just ignored them initially?

Pretty much.  The questions (especially the first one.  The second one is betterish) seem to have no validity, and were mostly time-wasters.

So, your initial silence was deliberate.  Interesting.  Why choose that tactic to avoid questions?

It's not a tactic.  They're not that important

I'm not interested in that issue.  I think it's a fruitless and pointless issue.  I commented on it, once really...  I think my original comment was good enough.  Basically, NQT's statements end of day 2 weren't magic.  They didn't have unlimited truths in them.  All they were were assumptions based around game mechanics that were later proven to be false.  I don't get why people would be interested in this issue.  It's illogical.  And I hope this paragraph is fleshy enough for you.

Thank you, this is helpful.  Not what I was looking for, but helpful.  It helps me understand exactly where you were coming from when you stepped in to protect Deus (the main reason why I asked the question), and thus helps me understand your relationships with Wozzy and Deus (particularly the latter).  The substantial step you've made beyond your initial statement (specifically, going from the relatively weak 'not inherently right' of your initial statement to the stronger rejection here) is interesting.

Well now let's look at this.  I never stepped in to protect Deus.  You're pushing that link all on your own.  I did say, and do say, that NQT's assumptions were clearly colored by an incorrect assumption of how it all works.  I haven't rejected his specific arguments against Deus.  I'm just saying don't treat them like magic.

I was hoping, though, to see the line of logic between NQT's mechanical error and the (now quite strong) rejection of his points about Deus.  In my own analysis, I saw the issue of NQT's kill immunity as largely irrelevant to his points about Deus.  NQT's error made him more certain, but was not the basis of his case.  Please tell me why you disagree.

... Actually, I'm gonna have to change my opinion.  I just reread NQT's posts, and yeah, it was his complete and only basis of his case. 

Deus was also suspicious because he seemed to indicate scum hadn't been blocked, but rather had tried to kill me (or someone else nk-immune) and failed. Given that I know scum failing to kill due to targeting me (and me being an obvious target for a kill), Deus's wording jumped out as suspicious. Hence why I'm voting him.

1. Deus Asmoth or his ally tried to kill me but failed due to my one-shot NK immunity

The only reason Deus was suspicious was in connection to NQT's NK immunity.

Welp.  You're not trying to dig deeper into everyone's thoughts and opinions.  Why am I so special?
[...]
I've posted quite a bit, definitely more then most.  Why need you generate more info on me but practically ignore some lurkers?  In isolation your reason seems fine, but focusing on making me generate info seems completely non-intuitive.

First: I only just started focusing on you.  When I first asked you those questions, you were one among many people I was questioning.  In just that one post alone, I asked four of the seven available players questions.  Among them, lurkers and non-lurkers.  One of the top posters (BHK), the bottom poster (Deus), and two mid-frequency posters (you and Wozzy).  One I am awaiting the initial response of, two I am still handling followup questioning, and one concluded the resulting discussion with a major change of beliefs.  Since I made that post, I have continued to question a wider array of players.
To put it simply, this idea you have of me ignoring some lurkers is groundless bullshit and obviously so.  How did you come to this idea, exactly?

So let me clarify.  I'm not saying that you're not asking questions to people.  I'm saying that you're not creating real information on other people.  You've tended to avoid getting in-depth, it looks like you only stick to superficial questions.  Sans NQT's thing, where a townie gambited and then got insta-hammered, you've not done much.  I mean, sure you ask questions, but no real line of questioning. 

Second: There's a reason I am now focusing on you.  You are responding poorly to my questions.

Rawr

Third: Deflecting to lurkers, I see.  I always love seeing this tactic.

Not deflecting.  Disagreeing with your reasons for asking questions.  You claim it's to generate information, but most of your questions don't really contribute much.  You've certainly never pressured someone yet.  That's the point.

I'm not really sure what you're wanting.  It seems pretty clear that BHK intentionally misled town about his reasons for voting.  I'm pretty sure I've already made it clear that I think that.  I'm not sure what else you want.

Ah.  I'll clarify.
We all know BHK misled town about the hammer, and did so intentionally.  He said so.  He's made several claims about what he did (both when hammering and when taroting), why he did it, and such, each building on the already-tangled pile of statements.  Your immediate reaction to most of BHK's points in the dispute was, essentially, strong disbelief.

What I want to see is your thoughts beyond the immediate.  I want to see the cohesive current position of the main player making the main case in the main wagon of the day.  This grants clarity and an unknown amount of new information, and it makes evaluation of the case against BHK easier.

Let's split the question into two questions that, in aggregate, are sort of similar:
*Aside from BHK's admission of misleading town, do you believe (or lean towards believing) any of BHK's various claims?  Why?
*What do you think really happened in the hammer affair?

Mmkay. So this is where I sit.
1. BHK intentionally misled town on what he did and why with the explicit purpose of looking less guilty.
2. BHK completely fluffed his tarot ability, by 'forgetting' that NQT flipped town and that Jack was the one to lead to that conclusion.  So BHK crazy-buffed the guy who bussed a townie.
3. BHK hammer-voted before the suspect had any chance to respond.  Now maybe he 'forgot'.  Doesn't matter.
4. BHK is outright confusing, and either intentionally, or unintentionally, misunderstanding much of the questions that were addressed to him.
5. BHK sounds like he is telling the truth.  But tonality isn't everything
Basically, 1-4 isn't outweighed by 5.  Even if BHK is town, those actions aren't acceptable.  The weird thing is is that I think BHK thinks the same thing as me.  He's advocated that you're supposed to lynch, even town, under certain circumstances.  He's repeatedly claimed that that he couldn't understand any reason town would lie, but we all agree with number 1.   All in all, I think that mafia is a game about lynching players that pose the most threat to town.  Usually, that's mafia, with their nightkills and stuff.  Sometimes, it's town who does mafia things.  I'm not sure whether BHK is mafia, my gut says no but the evidence says yes.  I, at this point however, wholly endorse a BHK lynch.

[4maskwolf]

Hmm...

I smell something...

Fishy.

Terrible puns aside, it seems that the whole dispute with BHK, at least from my end, was either a misunderstanding or he's very good at obfuscating stupidity, and I'm willing to grant the first one.  There's still the whole issue of him quickhammering NQT before NQT could even respond, but right now I'm more suspicious of you.  I've found you consistently suspicious throughout the game and you keep digging yourself a deeper hole, now including inanely bandwagoning onto an existing dispute with a pointless (and already existing) vote and then never addressing the subject again to the accused.

You and BHK have been going at it since D1, and I'm still trying to figure out whether you two are town/scum or scum pushing really hard at distancing.