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[piecewise]

So here's a thing

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Stats
To get starting Stats: Roll 2d8+8 for each. You then have 10 points to put wherever you want. Starting Stats cannot exceed 30.

Strength:Governs Carry Weight, armor max, and gives bonuses to melee damage. Shotgun, Sword,Ax, Club, Thrown and Concrete Druidism.

Dexterity: Governs aim, balance and dexterous actions. Movement, skullduggery, stealth, smg, rifle, Spear and Corpse Art.

Endurance: Governs HP and resisting physical effects. Explosive, Unarmed, and Iron Fatalism.

Mind: Governs spell memory and certain mental actions. Search, Examine, Medical,City lore, electronics, mechanics, synthomancy and Concrete druidism.

Will: Governs MP and resisting mental effects, as well as enhancement limits. Corpse art, Iron fatalism, Neon Conduction, and Flesh Ministration.

Speed: Governs movement speed, reactions and initiative. Pistol, Dodge, Cover, Neon Conduction.

Skills
Skills are broken down into Utility, Combat and Magic. Each skill also has a governing Stat. Skills begin at a level equal to ½ their governing stat and are raised up from there. Increasing stats after character creation DOES NOT increase their governed skill.  Skills can not exceed 25 at start. You have 40 points to put wherever you want. 

UTILITY
Search: Used to find hidden items, doors, and stealthy enemies. Rolled automatically when there’s an opportunity. Governed by Mind.

Examine: Used to examine items, enemies, etc. Can be used to learn about items, display enemy stats, and the like.  Governed by Mind.

Movement: Used to do out of the ordinary movements, such as climbing or acrobatic actions. Governed by Dexterity.

Skullduggery: A blanket skill for things like bashing down doors, picking locks, disarming bombs and general roguish actions.  Governed by Dexterity.

Medical: For the use of healing items  and other medical actions. Governed by Mind.

Repair: Used to attempt to repair damaged or disabled things. Has some overlap with electronics and mechanics for mechanical or electronic things. In these cases, you may use whichever skill is higher as the roll. Governed by Mind.


City Lore: Rolled to see if a character knows about something around them. For instance, if a player sees a new enemy, they will roll this to see if they know what it is, and thus get some info on it.  Governed by Mind.

Electronics: Used to handle, repair or manipulate anything electronic. Governed by Mind.

Mechanics:  Used to handle, repair or manipulate anything mechanical. Governed by Mind.

Stealth: Used to remain unseen, stay quiet and generally not be noticed. When acting together in a close group, the player with the lowest stealth is the one who the roll is made against, since if he is noticed you all probably will be. If you are separated, the rolls are individual. Governed by Dexterity.

COMBAT
Pistol/Revolver: Weakest gun but most common ammo. Shifts aim to next highest part on critical success. Governed by Speed.

SMG: Low value dice but the number of dice rolled is dependant on your Dex modifier. On critical success, the attack doesn’t use ammo. Governed by Dexterity

RIfle: Good damage. All around solid weapons. Deals Double damage on critical success. Governed by Dexterity

Explosive: Very high damage, wide range, single use. Destroys enemy armor and weapons critical success. Governed by Endurance.
 
Shotgun: Lots of pellets per shot. Very high damage maximum, but each pellet has chance to miss even on successful shots. Cripples anything hit on critical success. Governed by Strength
 
Sword: Average damage. Strikes twice on critical success. Governed by Strength

Ax: High damage, but unbalanced. If you miss, you can’t attack the next turn. Severs on critical success.  Governed by Strength

Club: Average damage, Stuns on critical success.  Governed by Strength.

Spear:  Lower damage, but deals double damage to armor. Ignores armor on a Critical success. Governed by Dexterity.

Thrown: Varying damage. Critical success sticks the object in the target and deals 1 damage a turn unless removed. Governed by Strength.

Unarmed: 1d2 damage + bonus from strength. Damage can be boosted with certain weapons. Cripples on critical success. Governed by Endurance.

Dodge: Used to avoid melee and thrown. Critical success gets a free counter hit. Governed by Speed

Cover: Used to avoid guns and explosives. Only rolled if you’re in cover. Critical success gives you a +3 bonus on all cover rolls this round. Speed.

MAGIC
Synthomancy: Uses a boombox and Cassette tapes to perform magic. Governed by mind.

Corpse art: Manipulates and uses corpses in all spells, thus requires them to do magic. Governed by the average of Will and Dexterity.

Iron Fatalism: Uses spells that drain HP instead of MP. Ritual tool of self harm. Governed by the average of Endurance and WIll.

Neon Conduction: Uses light and electricity to fuel magics, cannot cast spells without them.  Governed by the average of Speed and Will.

Concrete Druidism:  Directly manipulates Ouro and the demons that inhabit it. Powerful, but each spell increases the number or strength of monsters in the area. Governed by the average of Mind and Strength.

Flesh Ministration:  Can enhance players with demonic flesh and creates servants from captured flesh.  Governed by Will.

In order to prevet issues people had with DIG, starting skills now get a boost up from zero by governing stats, though increasing the stats later doesn't increase the skill.

If you guys would like, It would be nice if you could fill in a character sheet (really just a list of your numbers for all stats and skills), just so I could see what the distribution is like and work from there. Oh and when it says "Average" I mean add the two numbers and then divide by 2 to get a number that is the average of the two stats.

[Egan_BW]

Ors, Brute Librarian

Strength: 23 + 7 = 30
Dexterity: 18
Endurance: 19
Mind: 13
Will: 14
Speed: 14 + 3 = 17

Spoiler: skills (click to show/hide)

UTILITY
Search: 6

Examine: 6

Movement: 9

Skullduggery: 9

Medical: 6

Repair: 6

City Lore: 6 + 19 = 25

Electronics: 6

Mechanics:  6

Stealth: 9

COMBAT
Pistol/Revolver: 8

SMG: 9

RIfle: 9

Explosive: 8
 
Shotgun: 15
 
Sword: 15 + 9 = 24

Ax: 15

Club: 15

Spear:  9

Thrown: 15

Unarmed: 8

Dodge: 8 + 12 = 20

Cover: 8

MAGIC
Synthomancy: 6

Corpse art: 8

Iron Fatalism: 8

Neon Conduction: 7

Concrete Druidism:  10

Flesh Ministration:  7

[The Lupanian]

Hope I did this right

Spoiler: Sorrow (click to show/hide)

Strength 22

Dexterity 19

Endurance 18

Mind 20

Will 15

Speed 14

Skills

Search 10

Examine 10

Move 9

Skullduggery 9

Medical 10

Repair 10

City Lore 10

Electronic 10

Mechanical 10

Stealth 9

Pistol 7

Smg 9

Rifle 20

Explosive 9

Shotgun 11

Sword 20

Axe 11

Club 11

Spear 9

Throwing 10

Unarmed 9

Dodge 11

Cover 11

Synthomancy 10

Corpse Art 8

Iron fatalism 8

Neon conduction 7

Concrete Druidism 22

Flesh Ministraton 7

[Ozarck]

I see you are rounding down, Egan.

Explosive and unarmed should be 9, though.

I can't help Lupanian as much, unless he shows where he added points.

[AoshimaMichio]

You didn't say which way to round so I didn't.

Spoiler: Hidden pistoleer, Dancing conduit (click to show/hide)

Stats
  Strength: 15
  Dexterity: 22
  Endurance: 17
  Mind: 12
  Will: 25
  Speed: 26

Skills
  UTILITY
    Search: 6
    Examine: 6
    Movement: 16
    Skullduggery: 11
    Medical: 6
    Repair: 6
    City Lore: 6
    Electronics: 6
    Mechanics: 6
    Stealth: 21
  COMBAT
    Pistol/Revolver: 23
    SMG: 11
    Rifle: 11
    Explosive: 8.5
    Shotgun: 7.5
    Sword: 7.5
    Ax: 7.5
    Club: 7.5
    Spear: 11
    Thrown: 7.5
    Unarmed: 7.5
    Dodge: 13
    Cover: 18
  MAGIC
    Synthomancy: 6
    Corpse art: 11.75
    Iron Fatalism: 10.5
    Neon Conduction: 22.75
    Concrete Druidism: 6.75
    Flesh Ministration: 12.5

[Radio Controlled]

Initial thought on the skills:
-roll 'search' and 'examine' into 1. Seem to overlap a lot.
-remove 'repair', keep 'electronics' and 'mechanics'. Again, overlap, the description even mentions it.

No time right now to create a char, sorry.

[piecewise]

Initial thought on the skills:
-roll 'search' and 'examine' into 1. Seem to overlap a lot.
-remove 'repair', keep 'electronics' and 'mechanics'. Again, overlap, the description even mentions it.

No time right now to create a char, sorry.

Search, Examine and City lore have overlap, but I thik of it like this.

Search is for stuff like finding traps, hidden walls and loot.
Examine is for deducing things like the worth of an object, the stats of a monster, or mechanical information about the game.
City Lore is for learning about monsters or items in terms of their place in the game world or details that aren't strictly mechanical. Its akin to reading item descriptions in Dark souls.

I suppose I could roll them into one skill.

Repair I could probably safely remove.

You didn't say which way to round so I didn't.

Spoiler: Hidden pistoleer, Dancing conduit (click to show/hide)

Stats
  Strength: 15
  Dexterity: 22
  Endurance: 17
  Mind: 12
  Will: 25
  Speed: 26

Skills
  UTILITY
    Search: 6
    Examine: 6
    Movement: 16
    Skullduggery: 11
    Medical: 6
    Repair: 6
    City Lore: 6
    Electronics: 6
    Mechanics: 6
    Stealth: 21
  COMBAT
    Pistol/Revolver: 23
    SMG: 11
    Rifle: 11
    Explosive: 8.5
    Shotgun: 7.5
    Sword: 7.5
    Ax: 7.5
    Club: 7.5
    Spear: 11
    Thrown: 7.5
    Unarmed: 7.5
    Dodge: 13
    Cover: 18
  MAGIC
    Synthomancy: 6
    Corpse art: 11.75
    Iron Fatalism: 10.5
    Neon Conduction: 22.75
    Concrete Druidism: 6.75
    Flesh Ministration: 12.5

I've updated the rules to clarify that you should round down.


Here's a question I have for you guys. As of right now most of these characters seem to be heavily focused on a few specific skills, generally letting most utility skills stay lowish. If you had more points, would you put them into utility or would you instead put them into other attack stats? I ask because the 3d12 we're using has a curve, so even if you have 10 in a skill, thats like a 7% chance of success. Where as 20 in a skill is a 50% chance. A few points, say from 10 to 15, increases the chance from 7% to 27%. And if 20 is 50% then 25 is 80%.  So people with their utility skills floating in the 10's or so have little chance of being able to do them, but a little bit more and they'd at least have a 25% chance.

[Ozarck]

I wouldn't roll them into one skill
they have the same value individually as the individual combat skills do. Roll the utilities together and you gotta start rolling together the various weapon skills too, or risk the same kind of ridiculous imbalance that Dig has.

That said, in answer to your question about putting points into utilities: when has that ever been a viable option for one of your games? You had to modify Dig pretty heavily to make build interesting enough to work for most players, and once it was, it became one of two highly dominant skills - overshadowing pretty much the rest of the game.

I don't know of another of your games where utilities are balanced at all with combat or magic.

So, that said, I would wait until the game starts and see which way the wind blows before making a character. Frequent combat? I'd go combat only. Some practical need for utilities? I'd make something with a mix. Tinker on Wheels (or in a Drill)? Build skill all day long. Except I hate tinker, so in the third option I'd just ... either idle or drive away from the group until I found something interesting.

[AoshimaMichio]

Utility skills are largely based on Mind, which in my case rolled rather low. So I decided that instead of wasting points on low stats I would focus on where I already have high numbers and specialize there. It's simple question of optimizing for your strengths.

Having more points could mean more wider distribution, but on the other hand it could mean even more crippling specialization.

[The Lupanian]

I'd probably have invested in utility skills, I was planning on it but ran out of points.

And to answer the question, yes, I did round down. I did all my math on a hotel paper pad, and really didn't feel like transferring the math.

[Egan_BW]

I was kinda unlucky with my stats, with high str and fairly low everything else, so I decided to just put points in the one utility I really wanted, and put the rest in combat.

[NJW2000]

Dunno about rolling your own stats. Seems a bit exploitable and unrewarding to me.

[piecewise]

Dunno about rolling your own stats. Seems a bit exploitable and unrewarding to me.

The alternative would be "Everything just starts at 15. Here are some points to use"

The major reason for rolling stats is that it is a powerful anti-munchkin tool. And makes balancing somewhat easier.

In any case, I'm gonna probably go for the "Everything starts at this, heres some points."

[The Lupanian]

You could do point value assignment, so each person has 6 tickets with different values and then a few more points to pad out.

So, for example, you have: a 5 point, a 10 point, two 15 point, a 20 point, and a 25 point ticket. Then 20 points to put wherever you want.

[Radio Controlled]

Search is for stuff like finding traps, hidden walls and loot.
Examine is for deducing things like the worth of an object, the stats of a monster, or mechanical information about the game.
City Lore is for learning about monsters or items in terms of their place in the game world or details that aren't strictly mechanical. Its akin to reading item descriptions in Dark souls.

I suppose I could roll them into one skill.

Perhaps keep city lore but combine search and examine, and make it so the differences between the remaining two are clear and people can't substitute the one with a good roll of the other.

Dunno about rolling your own stats. Seems a bit exploitable and unrewarding to me.

The alternative would be "Everything just starts at 15. Here are some points to use"

The major reason for rolling stats is that it is a powerful anti-munchkin tool. And makes balancing somewhat easier.

In any case, I'm gonna probably go for the "Everything starts at this, heres some points."

It's not like people couldn't go for a build that prioritizes flexibility over specialization in DIG (competence be damned) but yeah, starting at a base level in everything at least makes sure people can't stat themselves in a way that makes certain action literally impossible (which a 0 in a skill in DIG does ensure). In ER having negatives didn't prevent you from trying, it just made disaster and hilarity have a high probability.

You could add a skill/stat ceiling that's relatively low when genning characters, so you can only really get good at something after investing in it in-game, and not start out a master. Or perhaps make a few templates yourself people can choose from?

I'd not go with rolling for stats if they tie into your skills so much, it might lock you out of the role you wanted to play due to bad luck.