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Author Topic: ORO: ANOTHER QUESTION  (Read 117224 times)

Ozarck

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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #615 on: May 19, 2016, 02:45:13 am »

develop your central systems, and make those the most challenging, then tier it out as a matter of distance from those places.

Which would be semilinear with multiple endpoints (though the heart of the thing is the final endpoint).
BUt ... it would be semilinear with potential for varied difficultiy in path, depending on how close teams get to the central systems and so forth.

spazyak

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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #616 on: May 19, 2016, 06:23:55 am »

I like nebulous just because it would provide more variety
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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #617 on: May 19, 2016, 08:03:51 am »

If I was designing a computer game, I'd go with linear. You've got your main storyline that brings you closer to the core, some simple branching choices and some side-missions, some easier, good for grinding, others harder, good for those looking for a challenge, with the main storyline being difficult enough on its own that unless you're very skilled, you have to take some side missions.

However, this is an RPG, so I would go with nebulous. The way I see it, exploration is a thing, you want to have the players stumble onto unexpected things. Plus, I expect that the difficulty of an area won't be related solely to its immune response. There should be variation between the areas. Environmental hazards, crazy residents,  hallucinogenic fumes, factories with no OSHA compliance. And on the other hand, there could be more "pleasant" areas. Rotten, diseased or otherwise dead areas. And for a city of evil, magic and weirdness, that could actually mean nice areas, like an inexplicably pleasant diner or merely areas that are just weird and hard to navigate but not that harmful and mostly empty.

Plus, as spazyak said, having newbies suddenly stumbling to the lair of a "sleeping dragon"-equivalent could lead to much fun. Especially when their poorly thought out plan fails and now they have to resort to the Benny Hill music and the Scooby chase scene.

Sorry if I'm not making sense, just trying to quickly voice my thoughts and ideas.

spazyak

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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #618 on: May 19, 2016, 08:15:07 am »

I said something inteligent?
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NJW2000

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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #619 on: May 19, 2016, 08:23:00 am »

Nebulous, but then extremely difficulty-guided or semi-linear near the big main areas we have to immobilise.

Don't want early game to be boring or lategame too... easy for experienced players.
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Egan_BW

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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #620 on: May 19, 2016, 09:25:17 am »

While nebulous seems appropriate, the area that I saw seemed to take a lot of effort, and it would be a shame if PW made a great big level only for the players to go around it because it's too difficult. One way around this I guess would be to make a Dark Souls quest to find a bunch of keys before you can get to The HEART, forcing people to complete hard areas even if they aren't on the way to The HEART. Alternately, optional areas could have dank loot at the end, or just be crafted with lower effort (like a randomly generated labyrinth or something.)
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Parisbre56

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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #621 on: May 19, 2016, 11:10:04 am »

Yeah, but if this is at least partially a game about exploration, you won't really know what an area is like until you explore it. And by that time you'd be too deep into it to get out. So there's this feeling of surprise and dread. What are we going to find next? What sounds better, the "Pit of Despair" or "Highway 66"? Or should we just backtrack through the field of love" which we know is relatively safe?  Is this area really safe or is the threat stalking us, waiting for us to split up and lower our guard?

On the other hand, if you know the direction you need to go for things to get harder, then there's less incentive to explore unless you really feel like exploring or trying to get some loot (and since I think piecewise described the game as less grindy and power-creepy than ER, I think there won't me much point to that). I guess you get to choose the path you take and the game has a potentially quicker end.

Ozarck

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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #622 on: May 19, 2016, 12:40:26 pm »

While nebulous seems appropriate, the area that I saw seemed to take a lot of effort, and it would be a shame if PW made a great big level only for the players to go around it because it's too difficult. One way around this I guess would be to make a Dark Souls quest to find a bunch of keys before you can get to The HEART, forcing people to complete hard areas even if they aren't on the way to The HEART. Alternately, optional areas could have dank loot at the end, or just be crafted with lower effort (like a randomly generated labyrinth or something.)
Make the great big areas modular, more or less. No need to run around all parts of a Central Park sized area if we can hang out at the hotdog vendors on the side for a while, collecting rattails for crafting while the behemoth tigerrhinos in the lake eat babies and whatnot.

Egan_BW

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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #623 on: May 19, 2016, 01:02:39 pm »

I do really like the idea of some random side area turning out to be an infinite random constantly shifting labyrinth.
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spazyak

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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #624 on: May 19, 2016, 01:49:32 pm »

I do really like the idea of some random side area turning out to be an infinite random constantly shifting labyrinth.
Would be neat
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Dutrius

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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #625 on: May 19, 2016, 03:45:24 pm »

PTW.
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syvarris

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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #626 on: May 19, 2016, 05:17:16 pm »

Nebulous is definitely my favorite, as it forces people to be cautious and scout areas before they go wild.  It also means we'll have to figure out our own paths through the city, unlike either of the other two where the good path is already built in.  "Should we take a long route through these three low level areas, which means more time for stuff to go wrong?  Or should we take a shortcut and sneak through the pits of hellfire furnaces, at risk of getting burned alive?"

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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #627 on: May 20, 2016, 04:43:16 am »

I'd say nebulous, but with certain 'chokepoints' which can serve as a sort of progression markers once they're cleared. Could be the places where you set up new camps or have to face bosses or something, and allows you to ramp up the difficulty gradually while still throwing a curveball here and there (eg a red zone acting as a shortcut in an otherwise green and orange filled area). This still encourages people to explore their options but gives you a convenient tool for set pieces or natural story/game progression. I could draw an example if you want.
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piecewise

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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #628 on: May 20, 2016, 09:51:34 am »

The major problem with nebulous is that it might be hard to tell if you're in over your head before your first fight ends in one turn when the monster cuts everyone in half.

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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #629 on: May 20, 2016, 09:56:46 am »

Wasn't that part of the stated goal though, quick and brutal deaths? Trial by fire, make a mistake and you're toast? Could go well with giving people the feeling they're prey as much as predator, constantly on edge and never certain what might be behind the next corner. And you could always try to give people subtle clues as to what the general danger level of an area is beyond simply monster strength.
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