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Author Topic: ORO: ANOTHER QUESTION  (Read 116544 times)

piecewise

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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #525 on: May 05, 2016, 01:12:13 am »

My inner munchkin weeps at the simplicity.  I suppose the system's fine, though.

Endurance should do more.  The way you described it, it's entirely inferior to speed; for every point of END, you get one less -1 speed from armor weight... but for every point of speed, you get +1 speed, which has the same effect if you're encumbered, and actually has an effect at all if you aren't.

Also, I don't really see the point of buffing anything aside from SPD and STR, at least when only concerned with direct combat.  Spending a lot on VIT/END means SPD/STR builds will almost always hit you, so it just means you wait a while longer to die, practically never getting a hit in.  VIT/END could be buffed if there's environmental traps which just do guaranteed damage, though.

Also, VIT could easily be inferior to END, or vice-versa, since they pretty much exclusively affect the exact same thing.  If ten points of END lets you wear 15 points of armor without penalty, while ten points of VIT grants you 10 HP, nobody smart would pick VIT.  Easy ways to fix that would be to make armor be expensive (so VIT's free, end's not), or to make VIT grant more HP than END grants armor, but you can choose how to distribute armor across the body.

...I've been saying STR/DEX would be best, but it would probably be pure STR.  40 STR means you roll more than 20 half the time, and anyone with less strength than whatever you rolled would find it impossible to hit you, even if they get twenty die due to speed.  Of course, there's a tiny chance of rolling a one or something, but that's so unlikely it scarcely matters, especially since you'll probably one-shot basically anything.

Hmm.  Diminishing returns could sorta balance it, simply by making it worthless to invest in things after a point, but then there probably wouldn't be a lot of individuality between characters.  People munchkins would still level the "best" stat(s) primarily, with the only individuality coming from exactly what they see as breakpoints, and what they think are good secondary stats.  So, you might see STR/VIT, STR/END, and STR/DEX, but anyone who doesn't have one of those three would die if they fought one.  And STR/DEX would probably win against the other two most of the time.

Of course, these statements could all be altered greatly depending on what abilities exist.  For instance, an ability which lets you add your total amount of armor to an attack roll at the cost of some FTH would make a tank char more powerful compared to a STR/DEX char.  However, I doubt abilities would grant much creativity unless there's just tons of them with interconnecting effects, in which case the simplicity is lost.  So, yeah... munchkin's crying.


THIRD EDIT:
Maybe armor could provide DR, rather than additional HP?  And if you take less damage than you have DR, you automatically hit?  That makes a tank build more interesting, and makes the difference between VIT and END more notable.  It acts as a hard counter against DEX, and sorta-kinda counters STR by making it harder for them to one-shot you, increasing your chance of getting a lucky hit.  Of course, you'd need some rule like "you cannot have negative speed", or else I'll someone will just go for max STR and get all the heaviest armor, granting them 1d40 rolls, 20 DR, and -80 SPD.

FOURTH:
How does range work?  If both people attack every turn, that means nobody's sacrificing an attack to close/retreat and get a better bonus.  If both people get to change range once per turn, it'd just cancel out unless they have a competing roll.  If said roll uses the attack numbers, it inherently favors status quo because one person probably has a shorter range than the other, so it'd probably be best to base it on SPD.  An alternative would be to just lower range by one each turn, which could be interesting.

Also, does range work like the previous combat test, where a range 1 weapon never gets a bonus and a range 4 weapon never gets a penalty?  I think the flaw there is obvious.
I think you missed the line about what range does

Quote
Range of the weapon adds an "Effective bonus" ie It gives +1 or +2 or whatever to the contest between the dice, but not to the damage dealt. Ie, 3+1 vs 2 would still deal 3 damage.

It should be noted that the numbers and stuff I gave weren't final and that the ratios here are not what I intended. Specifically:

Speed vs Endurance:
Even though I used numbers that made it seem like this, the speed regained via just pumping speed to offset armor wouldn't be as good as if you pumped endurance. For instance, again just an example not any actual numbers, armor with a -10 speed  could be offset by +10 dex or +3 end.  Something like that.

Vit vs End:
The big difference here is that HP heals, armor doesn't. And Repairing armor takes money and requires you to be in town. So you can go in there in heavy as fuck armor and just tank but if you have 2 hp past that armor and run into a rust monster or something, you are fucked. DR could work too, so you can tank through hits.

Str is op:
Yeah, kinda. Diminishing returns could work but it's still problematic because getting a generally higher number is always a better idea that just about anything.

AoshimaMichio

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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #526 on: May 05, 2016, 01:39:45 am »

You could add a point where too much strength starts adding penalties to other stats. Justified as "your muscles are so big they actually get on your way".
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NJW2000

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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #527 on: May 05, 2016, 03:51:05 am »

Why does strength determine the size of the die you roll in the first encounter? Just because someone has fuckhueg muscles doesn't necessarily mean they hit faster than everyone else...


 It just means they heft weapons that are a challenge to manipulate due to weight faster, and can deliver more force while hitting (their own strength will continue the blow into somebody's ribs, for example.)

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AoshimaMichio

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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #528 on: May 05, 2016, 05:37:05 am »

There's also the choice between making fun mechanics and simulating reality. Reality isn't always fun, even if it makes sense.
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NJW2000

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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #529 on: May 05, 2016, 05:49:56 am »

This system has a problem with strength being OP. Strength is also being given too much weight from a realism POV when it comes to who gets attacks in.

Ergo:

PW needs to nerf strength when it comes to determining who attacks.
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Egan_BW

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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #530 on: May 05, 2016, 08:24:56 am »

Miriad rules now flow through my head and I'm tempted to create a MINIORO. And thus continue to pretend that the other game I started doesn't exist. <_< I may not have much focus, sorry about that.
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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #531 on: May 05, 2016, 09:00:48 am »

Miriad rules now flow through my head and I'm tempted to create a MINIORO. And thus continue to pretend that the other game I started doesn't exist. <_< I may not have much focus, sorry about that.
I'm considering making a tier based military slugfest myself. just ... drop people into the fictional version of d-day and let them die repeatedly on the shores of normandy, hopping from island to island in the fictional Pacific, and getting eaten by dinotigers in Cleveland.

piecewise

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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #532 on: May 05, 2016, 10:09:06 am »

Hmmm. Well we could make it so str only does damage, and have the actual die rolled based on something else.

Hell, the easiest would be just rolling your level. Level 10, roll d10. Would sure make balancing enemies easier.

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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #533 on: May 05, 2016, 10:11:52 am »

Attack die is by far the most important stat, so it makes sense to tie it to level, or even just make it so it is your level.
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renegadelobster

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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #534 on: May 05, 2016, 10:29:19 am »

Maybe have it be your level plus 2? Otherwise I feel surviving from level 1 to level 2 will be a miracle. I mean, all of us having d1's trying to take down a monster will be funny as all hell, but still. Would make the game extremely deadly and encourage cooperation between players though...
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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #535 on: May 05, 2016, 10:33:32 am »

Nah, adult humans are lvl 3, and our characters start trained up to lvl 4. An infant or squirrel would be lvl 1.
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piecewise

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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #536 on: May 05, 2016, 10:35:59 am »

Nah, adult humans are lvl 3, and our characters start trained up to lvl 4. An infant or squirrel would be lvl 1.
Maybe have it be your level plus 2? Otherwise I feel surviving from level 1 to level 2 will be a miracle. I mean, all of us having d1's trying to take down a monster will be funny as all hell, but still. Would make the game extremely deadly and encourage cooperation between players though...

What it would probably be is that you start at level 6 or something, not at 1 or 0. 


Do people like the idea of classes or do they want a more free form thing where they do their own build from the ground up?

AoshimaMichio

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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #537 on: May 05, 2016, 10:48:14 am »

I like classes, but in forum games I prefer to have option to branch out. Make some base classes and let players build upon those.
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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #538 on: May 05, 2016, 11:25:13 am »

Yeah, I'd say do it dank souls style, where classes just decide what stuff you start with, and you can grow anywhere from there, end up getting the things other classes start with, etc.
Though that might make it harder to make cool mechanics for particular classes, like the zealot you talked about earlier.
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piecewise

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Re: ORO discussion
« Reply #539 on: May 05, 2016, 11:36:30 am »

Yeah, I'd say do it dank souls style, where classes just decide what stuff you start with, and you can grow anywhere from there, end up getting the things other classes start with, etc.
Though that might make it harder to make cool mechanics for particular classes, like the zealot you talked about earlier.
I could tie that stuff to just weapon skills, so using nothing but your fists would unlock those skills, and have the other skills be "learnable" if you have enough stats in X or Y.
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