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[spazyak]

gg Egan, ya did gud!

[Egan_BW]

I don't think you should automatically change targets if the target is dead, instead changing those instances to recovery.
Also, you made a mistake on instance two where you say Spaz attacks Whisperling, when Spaz's second action is to feint me.


Egan cleans off his blade and makes a "Well what is it" pose.

[syvarris]

I'm enjoying it.  It's surprisingly fun to watch, and I think it could become quite entertaining to build characters in with just a bit more complexity.  Doubly so if I get to help with the balancing, and I'm not entirely certain you can make me not do that.

[piecewise]

I don't think you should automatically change targets if the target is dead, instead changing those instances to recovery.
Also, you made a mistake on instance two where you say Spaz attacks Whisperling, when Spaz's second action is to feint me.


Egan cleans off his blade and makes a "Well what is it" pose.

Yes, If we were to use this I'd definitely need something to keep track of these things a bit better than memory and winging it.

I'm enjoying it.  It's surprisingly fun to watch, and I think it could become quite entertaining to build characters in with just a bit more complexity.  Doubly so if I get to help with the balancing, and I'm not entirely certain you can make me not do that.

Yeah, Like I'm gonna say no to letting someone else handle fiddly balancing aspects of the game. You're officially hired for no money to sperg out on balance.

[Whisperling]

Seems fun so far. Combat might be a tad too lethal, but armor and shields will help with that.

Actually, this does make me think about how you might handle cards with varying power levels. I assume that the really powerful ones would also come at a price (corruption, recovery, etc.), but it might be neat to include some other stuff as well. Persistent statuses, increased regeneration time, that sort of thing.

[Egan_BW]

I didn't think it was lethal enough, but I'm just a bloodthirsty Khornite.

[Ozarck]

as to it;s lethality / lack thereof, well, that isn't inherent in the system - it can be adapted for higher damage  and lower hp as needed. it is certainly a modular method, and can incorporate a wide variety of 'cards' and the like, so it is flexible. It could be expanded as well, in terms of how many actions are made per round, in order to speed up otherwise long and uninteresting battles, while nothing prevents the gm from pausing a turn mid way when something unexpected happens to shift the battle.

I am ... a little uncertain about the blend of methods, missions, city, and setting. It feels at this point like there are several disparate goals or points to the game which are being mashed together into an amalgam. For instance - early on, the game was described as combat focused. Later it was described as more strategy focused: get there in a limited amount of sessions with a limited amount of bases, doing the least amount of noticeable harm so the city reacts the least amount and kills you softly. additionally, the setting plays a huge role in the game, and as we have seen, there has been a trade off between detail of the setting, and simplicity for the sake of keeping things targeted to the 'end goal.'

I'm just windbagging a bit here, but the main point is that it would be worth considering what is the central and most important/ interesting aspect of the game, and tailoring the rest to fit that. it might mean discarding certain things, or adding others, or whatever. But it could make the game more manageable for the Gm and playable for the ... the players.

Anyway, the combat mechanics are fine, for a certain type of game, and I could get into it reasonably well, as long as I don't have to battle some elite collecting card game fanatic, who knows all the little tricks and expl;oits and all that and can own a game in three easy steps.

[syvarris]

I am ... a little uncertain about the blend of methods, missions, city, and setting. It feels at this point like there are several disparate goals or points to the game which are being mashed together into an amalgam. For instance - early on, the game was described as combat focused. Later it was described as more strategy focused: get there in a limited amount of sessions with a limited amount of bases, doing the least amount of noticeable harm so the city reacts the least amount and kills you softly. additionally, the setting plays a huge role in the game, and as we have seen, there has been a trade off between detail of the setting, and simplicity for the sake of keeping things targeted to the 'end goal.'

I'm just windbagging a bit here, but the main point is that it would be worth considering what is the central and most important/ interesting aspect of the game, and tailoring the rest to fit that. it might mean discarding certain things, or adding others, or whatever. But it could make the game more manageable for the Gm and playable for the ... the players.

This is something I was wondering about earlier, back when PW was asking for system suggestions.  I kept ending up getting somewhat confused by the system's goals--on one hand, it should be a very modular, vauge system, which is very quick to run and can easily accomodate extremely strange creatures, right?  That makes sense considering the setting, because we're not supposed to engage, and when we do we should be terrified, so combat being simple is okay; it's not a significant gameplay element.  On the other hand... it kinda is.  Aside from crafting and colonization, both of which are small and simple for the players, combat is the only system.  Exploration is all well and good, but it's difficult to run a game off just exploration while keeping it interesting.  It also doesn't allow much character individuality.  All that implies that combat should be a deep system, and there should be significant amounts of combat being run.

It seems PW went with the latter option, where combat is the meat of the game.  I don't really mind any option, as I'm fairly certain PW will run a good game regardless of what he does.  At worst, he'll make a foolish decision and later rethink it, and add a couple weeks of dev time.  Not a significant issue, IMO.

[NJW2000]

One could try and work a lot of weird environmental stuff/choices in as well, if we don't want this combat to be the main element.

e.g. do you stick your hand into the brain of this wasp sewn into the steering wheel of a ship, or just try and build a raft?

Or:

There are four furnaces, each with a picture of a blossom from a city garden, like the one with trees that tried to strangle you earlier. So do you try to work them with the wrong wood, wait for the trees to blossom on the next expedition and visit a bunch of gardens, or break into the Biology section of the grand library, which happens to be crawling with giant lice monsters, and nick some reference books?

[Ozarck]

Combat has been central to the concept of the game throughout the ORO discussion - it is hte sole method of leveling, and killing monsters restores faith (the other core concept of hte game). nad most ofthe discussion has been around melee weapons, which kinda require a hands on combat approach. but then you get posts like http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=156860.msg6883246#msg6883246 where "raw destructive power is not what is needed - you have to be like a virus, get a foothold and grow," Which suggests a completely different gameplay style, and this one: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=156860.msg6884512#msg6884512 which suggests that stealth and disguise, base building and careful progress are central to success. So what you have is a system seemingly set up for individual players to be entirely combat oriented, (PW's even said that medic types have little to no place here, and that non combat players would have no way of leveling), but a setting and system in which pretty much everything but direct combat is necessary for the win, overall.

About the only valuable thing I've seen the combat be mentioned as achieving, besides leveling, is gathering crafting resources.

... Pw does say that "if you get to the chemical gut of oro, you had better be ready to fight all out, run, or hide uhhhh, here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=156860.msg6888004#msg6888004, so I guess at some point you'll be up to the task of wading through hordes of enemies, cutting them down like grass and all that fun stuff. But ... ther ewas mention of an immune respose for when you get too noticed, too, so it's almost like you gotta be real sneaky, build bases and hide them, and carefully hunt for the sake of level and crafting material so that you can arm up and overcome the immune response when you get deep inside.

resource management rts and all that.

I think if my understanding of the game is anywhere near accurate (when has it been yet, though?), the type of character I would want to play is a stealth hunter type, but the problem is, you would be going on mission swith other players, who could get loud and incur the wrath of the immune system, so you might escape the upcoming holocaust, but not succeed in the mission goal.

[Egan_BW]

therefore forget oro MAINSPRING NOW

[Ozarck]

therefore forget oro MAINSPRING NOW

Sure, why not

But seriously, I'm not trying to criticize or complain, if that is how that came across. just putting out some confused observations for consideration, since this is the development thread and all.

[Radio Controlled]

Ok, so ignoring the finer details of things like balance, and assuming that in the future there would be more cards, more special moves, magic, etc, what do you think of this kind of combat?
Do you think it's something you could enjoy? Or back to the drawing board?
Other people who were just watching can chime in too.

Personally, from just watching the thing unfold, I don't think I really like the system. Too 'game-y' so to speak, and seems rather inflexible and limited. Although having more things in hard numbers can be convenient and help with predictability of your actions, I think I prefer a more traditional way of handling combat, aka one where you could use the situation and environment to your advantage. Not saying that such modifiers couldn't possibly be worked into the system, of course, but it'd be hard (and might go against the wish to make combat quicker).

therefore forget oro MAINSPRING NOW

NEVER!

[Pancaek]

I'm not sure I like the system with the cards and the numbers. It seems like we're just trading the complexity of abstract actions for the complexity of a very rigorous number driven combat system. Those are just my thoughts at this moment, not saying they're worth much.

[NJW2000]

I think the main Question is whether or not this Deals with the whole Combat Taking Too Long issue, isn't it?

Wasnt that the idea of a Turn-based system? And if so, has it worked?