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[Whisperling]

So we need some sort of demon-forged fire spit Super Soaker?

...I need to use this as a weapon.

[Radio Controlled]

You said that bullets and other non-magic damage doesn't work on demons. Is that because they are highly resistant to non-magic damage, or because they heal non-magic damage very quickly? Say I shoot a heavy bullet with a lot of kinetic energy from a big ol' rifle into a demon, and it survives. Does that mean that kicking the demon off of a high building to fall and smash itself on the floor below would also not kill it? Meaning that trying to use environmental damage to kill demons isn't possible, or very hard at least?

Other example, if I use a trick to trap some demons in a building and set it ablaze, would that kill the demons? If yes, does that mean you could use a decent regular (non-holy) flamethrower as a weapon?

[MidnightJaguar]

Hurrah for Dresden verse bullet to demon system. Sorry don't know what came over me. What I meant was I think being able to kill demons and stuff through creative use of the environment would be very cool.

[piecewise]

You said that bullets and other non-magic damage doesn't work on demons. Is that because they are highly resistant to non-magic damage, or because they heal non-magic damage very quickly? Say I shoot a heavy bullet with a lot of kinetic energy from a big ol' rifle into a demon, and it survives. Does that mean that kicking the demon off of a high building to fall and smash itself on the floor below would also not kill it? Meaning that trying to use environmental damage to kill demons isn't possible, or very hard at least?

Other example, if I use a trick to trap some demons in a building and set it ablaze, would that kill the demons? If yes, does that mean you could use a decent regular (non-holy) flamethrower as a weapon?

It's the werewolf sort of deal, it just doesn't seem to bother them unless you get them with the right weapon. You could PROBABLY kill them with ordinary weapons, but you're gonna need a mini-gun and several crates of ammo. Ie, it's not really worth it. Kind of like using the non-silver sword on monsters in the witcher games. As per environmental damage, that depends. You find a demon made of ice and hit it with fire, thats gonna be effective regardless. But doing it on a "normal" demon, ie one made of flesh or metal or something, and it might get singed but it won't do any significant damage.

[NJW2000]

So the demons are magical creatures (tougher, maybe regenerative, etc), but hitting them with the right materials will hurt them as if they were mundane?

Which means our options are "divine" materials (i.e. special) or just massive overkill?

Will the latter be an option, ever, or are we fighting only with divine weapons?

[MidnightJaguar]

In light of this information we should have a class of characters that somehow carries around a blunderbuss and a sample of every element on the periodic table. Whenever the character sees a demon they load up the samples into the blunderbuss run up to the demon and then discharge the blunderbuss into the demon. This practically guarantees that one of the elements will be able to hurt it.

[piecewise]

So the demons are magical creatures (tougher, maybe regenerative, etc), but hitting them with the right materials will hurt them as if they were mundane?

Which means our options are "divine" materials (i.e. special) or just massive overkill?

Will the latter be an option, ever, or are we fighting only with divine weapons?

Only very specific creatures would have that kind of mundane or specific weakness. The majority won't.

[NJW2000]

Wait, so our weapons won't be useless whatever on pretty much most demons, will they?

As far as I understood it, there were:

• Special Weapons - forged in the holy city, under special rites, sometimes from pieces of demons
• Normal Weapons (these don't actually work)
• Massive overkill (bad plan)
• Stuff that will only work with the right demons i.e. slug demons and salt, ice demons and fire, fire and water, blah blah

Only very specific creatures would have that kind of mundane or specific weakness. The majority won't.

Were you refering to the last one here? Or something else?

[piecewise]

Wait, so our weapons won't be useless whatever on pretty much most demons, will they?

As far as I understood it, there were:

• Special Weapons - forged in the holy city, under special rites, sometimes from pieces of demons
• Normal Weapons (these don't actually work)
• Massive overkill (bad plan)
• Stuff that will only work with the right demons i.e. slug demons and salt, ice demons and fire, fire and water, blah blah

Only very specific creatures would have that kind of mundane or specific weakness. The majority won't.

Were you refering to the last one here? Or something else?

Yeah, you have that right. Holy weapons work on everything (to greater or lesser degree depending on damage and material), normal weapons don't do jack unless done with massive overkill, and specific creatures may have mundane weaknesses, salt to slug, water to fire, etc.

[NJW2000]

Flexible, some degree of realism, but still with massive swords etc... sounds brilliant.

[Parisbre56]

What about something like a monk? Could someone infuse his fist with his faith to make it a holy weapon? Essentially trade faith to temporarily make themselves a holy weapon? Or use a special skill that makes their next weapon strike or bullet fired holy?

Or maybe drink some demonic stimulant to corrupt themselves and attack a demon (and everyone around it) in berserk rage with their bare fists, doom style? Essentially another way to trade some faith AND some added corruption for a boost, temporarily giving you an ability to cause more harm or use your tools as if they were holy or demonic?

Or does that not mesh well with the crafting system, leading to more chances for imbalance?


There's also another consideration for  environmental damage: Maybe the environment can't kill the demons, but it could slow them down, if they're not superhuman. If the ceiling collapsed, them a demon could be trapped and not able to kill. And if the players are given access to a great deal of mundane weapons, they might be able to cause that to happen regularly. I could see a group of crusaders blowing up one side of a building so that it topples and blocks the path of the pursuing immune demons or demonic tank or whatever. Depending on your vision for the game, there could be many different ways to handle that (including just letting it be).

[piecewise]

What about something like a monk? Could someone infuse his fist with his faith to make it a holy weapon? Essentially trade faith to temporarily make themselves a holy weapon? Or use a special skill that makes their next weapon strike or bullet fired holy?

Or maybe drink some demonic stimulant to corrupt themselves and attack a demon (and everyone around it) in berserk rage with their bare fists, doom style? Essentially another way to trade some faith AND some added corruption for a boost, temporarily giving you an ability to cause more harm or use your tools as if they were holy or demonic?

Or does that not mesh well with the crafting system, leading to more chances for imbalance?


There's also another consideration for  environmental damage: Maybe the environment can't kill the demons, but it could slow them down, if they're not superhuman. If the ceiling collapsed, them a demon could be trapped and not able to kill. And if the players are given access to a great deal of mundane weapons, they might be able to cause that to happen regularly. I could see a group of crusaders blowing up one side of a building so that it topples and blocks the path of the pursuing immune demons or demonic tank or whatever. Depending on your vision for the game, there could be many different ways to handle that (including just letting it be).

I've already got a monk/unarmed class planned. Zealots. No armor, no weapons, all fists and faith. The idea being that they are literally so faithful that their fists are holy weapons.

[Egan_BW]

I'm on board for plan massive overkill myself, fuck "Holy weapons".

[NJW2000]

I somehow doubt the holy city will particularly endorse massive overkill.

Which means its up to us 

[spazyak]

I'm on board for plan massive overkill myself, fuck "Holy weapons".

OOOOooooohHHHH. Can we burn then shoot then burninate then shoot then nuke them just to be sure, in any order?