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Author Topic: n00b advice: use herbalists  (Read 2740 times)

prklts

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n00b advice: use herbalists
« on: April 11, 2007, 10:47:00 pm »

I know it. I'm the biggest n00b of them all.

I was intrigued by the game in the beginning, but it was so difficult, and I had such an inflexible way of wanting to dig my fortress, that I just couldn't do it. I've done all the naughty things -- exiting and "reloading" the game, even the cheat-o-matic thing to give myself 30,000 points. I bought my seven dwarves uber skills and enough food and drink to last for years. The wagons were lined up so far from the entrance that wild animals regularly stole things from them...

This is the thing I found to help the most: herbalist. I can get by on just the plants. Just about everyone in my camp is an herbalist. Hehe. These things sprout every season or so, and when we gather the stuff, we brew it right away.

The plans I wanted called for everything to fall between the river and the chasm, but that's just not feasible in the beginning. I dug a wide hallway that leads toward the underground river, and all my workshops and stockpiles and beds and things line either side of the hallway. It isn't pretty, but it does okay for meeting the bare minimum to keep production going.

I am so pumped about this game! Don't get addicted to cheating. Get addicted to winning! GO DF!!!!  :)

Tim

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Mechanoid

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Re: n00b advice: use herbalists
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2007, 11:43:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by prklts:
even the cheat-o-matic thing to give myself 30,000 points
EXPLAIN?!


quote:
I am so pumped about this game!
Be sure to be sitting on the toilet when the next version comes out, because if you're sitting in the chair you are now, it will never be the same again.
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Quote from: Max White
"Have all the steel you want!", says Toady, "It won't save your ass this time!"

RPB

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Re: n00b advice: use herbalists
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2007, 12:26:00 am »

One good fisherdwarf takes care of your food production for the first year (more than one is a waste, though, since they just fish the river dry faster). You'll still need to grab a few plants for booze production, but you don't have to worry about getting very many.
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Slartibartfast

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Re: n00b advice: use herbalists
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2007, 12:48:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by prklts:
<STRONG>The plans I wanted called for everything to fall between the river and the chasm, but that's just not feasible in the beginning.</STRONG>

Sure it is. What you do is get two diggers and dig straight to the river, and meanwhile set up your other dwarf's workshops outside the mountain. Make sure to produce two doors so you can blook the entrance to the hallways ASAP, and then assign a food stockpile inside the hallway, now animals won't steal your food, all your workshops are at full capacity and you are furiously digging into the mountain. As soon as you reach the river, make briding it a first priority, and from now on you can start settling between the river and the chasm, and still have plenty of time for farming plump helmets.
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But what do I know?
Everything I say should be taken with atleast 1 tsp. of salt, and another liter of Dwarven Wine is recommended.

"I thought it was the size of the others!" said Vanon. "I guess it was just standing further away!"

LordBucket

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Re: n00b advice: use herbalists
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2007, 03:26:00 am »

My advice to new players would be:

1) Everything you *want* to do when you first start playing is fairly irrelevant. Wells for drinking? Not necessary. Bedrooms for your dwarves? They don't really care. Beds? Furnture? Dining hall? None of it is important. You can make your dwarves sleep in rain, mud and snow...make them drink  from the river even when it's running red with blood...no big deal. All that matters in the beginning is food. People will tell you that alcohol matters. It kind of does, but it's not as big a deal as people claim. No alcohol for your first year is fine. Again, all that really matters is food. Learn the interface, then learn how to make farms. Until you can do that, nothing else matters and your fortresses will be doomed to madness and death.

2) Do NOT try to make single dwarves that "do everything." Within a few hours of play you will have more dwarves than you can possibly use. Specialization is good.

3) You don't need two axes. Bring more food.

4) Don't get attached to individual dwarves, and don't get too hopeful about them becoming  "Legendary." Dwarves will die in your game, fairly randomly, and very often there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. Plus, sometimes having Legendary craftsdwarves is more hassle than it's worth.

5) Don't get too attached to the idea of making an aesthetically perfect fortress. "Stuff" will get in the way and there's nothing you can do about it.

6) Many things that seem like they should be important...aren't. Or, are, but aren't important for your first few years of gameplay. For instance, when your first metalsmith shows up with a forge, completely ignore the forge and make him do something else. Forges, metalsmiths, jewelers, clothesmakers...lots of things: just don't bother until you know the game better. You can have a perfectly fun and long-lasting game with no industry other than: farm, kitchen, brewery, stonemason, carpenter, mechanic.

7) Hunters: nice idea, but they don't work very well. Don't bother.

8) Trade can sometimes be useful. But don't stress out over the "3-wide" road thing. It's just not that big of a deal.

9) Don't worry much about defense in your first few games. There's a lot of talk here in the forums about it because it's fun, but in all likelihood you'll have to spend years going out of your way LOOKING for battles before you have any, and when you do they'll probably be over before you can even find them on the map.

10) For your first few games...play on maps without elephants. "Elephant" is the dwarvish word for "Evil Tank."

11) Floodgates allow you to control irrigation for your farms. They are not neccesary, but they can be helpful, once you know how to use them. Save and backup your fortress before you experiment with them. If you don't get it right, your entire fortress will be permanently destroyed by a bug.


That list would have made my first five or six hours of gametime much less frustrating.

Slartibartfast

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Re: n00b advice: use herbalists
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2007, 04:51:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by LordBucket:
<STRONG>My advice to new players would be:</STRONG>

I couldn't agree more. Its just so correct and important that I have to quote it for emphasis.
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But what do I know?
Everything I say should be taken with atleast 1 tsp. of salt, and another liter of Dwarven Wine is recommended.

"I thought it was the size of the others!" said Vanon. "I guess it was just standing further away!"

Core Xii

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Re: n00b advice: use herbalists
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2007, 08:22:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by prklts:
<STRONG>The plans I wanted called for everything to fall between the river and the chasm, but that's just not feasible in the beginning.</STRONG>

My plans call for everything to fall between the chasm and the magma flow, and I have no problem getting there =)

I just get a nile farm up asap and there's really nothing else to worry about.

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short_dwarf

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Re: n00b advice: use herbalists
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2007, 09:09:00 am »

Just for those who do want to hunt the wild animals. Try turning your hunter into a marksdwarf and control him in hunting. You can easily by pass those evil elephants by turning off the ignore wild animals if possible and turning it back on when near a deer or something. It worked for me.
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Fieari

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Re: n00b advice: use herbalists
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2007, 10:50:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by LordBucket:
<STRONG>All that matters in the beginning is food. People will tell you that alcohol matters. It kind of does, but it's not as big a deal as people claim. No alcohol for your first year is fine. Again, all that really matters is food. Learn the interface, then learn how to make farms. Until you can do that, nothing else matters and your fortresses will be doomed to madness and death.</STRONG>

The reason alcohol matters is because it quintuples your food production as well as makes said food production faster (with the cooks taking less breaks).  Herbalism + Still + Kitchen = No food worries for years.  When immigrants come, you can build a second still/kitchen combo.  A single legendary (or close to it) herbalist will supply all your food needs; and it is a renewable supply, since herbs grow on their own every single year.  Just make sure herbalism is the only thing that dwarf ever does, that he's never interrupted by wildlife (send out the military to kill a raccoon if you have to), and that he always has plants designated, preferably the nearest ones to the door.

Of course, just because this CAN support a couple dozen dwarves doesn't mean you want it to, because the only way it'll support them is if your fortress is located right near the gate; otherwise walking times will kill you.  Farms are helpful because it puts the food right there next to you, preferably on the far side of the river.

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schnobs

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Re: n00b advice: use herbalists
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2007, 01:11:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Fieari:
<STRONG>The reason alcohol matters is because it quintuples ...</STRONG>

a) this is already rather advanced. The poster specifically adresses beginners.

b) there's quite a few who believe that the brew & cook combo is an exploit -- I, for one, am reminded of the incident where thousands were fed of seven fish (link anyone? I'm not christian enough to come up with the right phrases for a search engine).

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Fieari

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Re: n00b advice: use herbalists
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2007, 02:29:00 pm »

Granted, but when I was learning, I couldn't manage to live past winter until I started futzing with the kitchen build.  It isn't actually hard... it requires a carpenter/woodcutter (for barrels), a cook, a brewer, and an herbalist.  It's nowhere near as complicated as setting up an irrigation system for farms-- instead, you just need three buildings.  And no danger of flooding the world.  Furthermore, you no longer need wells, ever, and hence no need to worry about attacks from wells.  Heck, for beginners, it might be nice not having to worry about the river at all until you've figured how to play the game a bit more.

It's easier than starving, for certain.  Which I did constantly before using this method.  It lets you experiment with other stuff without being terrified of utter failure right from the getgo.  Traffic management and fortress layout can be focused on instead of worrying only about food.

And the bible story you're thinking of is "five loaves, and two fishes". Matthew 14:14-21

[ April 12, 2007: Message edited by: Fieari ]

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prklts

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Re: n00b advice: use herbalists
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2007, 04:56:00 pm »

Mechanoid... goto the DF wiki. On the main page, there's a link called "cheating" or something like that. It talks about the cheat-o-matic.

I used to use it, but I am an honest man now.

Tim

P.S. Cheers to Toady and friends for making a cool game.

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Grek

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Re: n00b advice: use herbalists
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2007, 06:14:00 pm »

quote:
7) Hunters: nice idea, but they don't work very well. Don't bother.

There are exactly two cases where sending a dwarf hunting is even remotely a good idea.

A) You are on a map with the biome [TEMPRATE_FOREST] or [TEMPRATE_SHRUBLAND] that is also a wilderness map and the dwarf is followed by a minimum of 15 war dogs. Anything else will result in B

B) You want the dwarf in question to die horridly along with any dwarfs that go to claim his stuff. The rest of your fort too if you have elephants.

[ April 12, 2007: Message edited by: Grek ]

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seizer

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Re: n00b advice: use herbalists
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2007, 07:50:00 pm »

Kinda off-topic, but I've found the most efficient way of getting food is from indoors plant gathering. You could easily feed a 100-dwarf fortress with 1 herbalist/brewer/cook.
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Erasmus Darwin

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Re: n00b advice: use herbalists
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2007, 10:54:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Grek:
<STRONG>There are exactly two cases where sending a dwarf hunting is even remotely a good idea.</STRONG>

I've found a third case:

There are annoying, minor creatures on the map (most typically groundhogs) that keep resulting in cancelled jobs, so you designate a random peasant as a hunter to harass the animals and chase them away.

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