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[andrea]

do we actually have grenades?

[Kot]

Actually a grenade launcher would be useful, since there's going to be a lot of beach landings and probably a few ship boardings, having the ability to launch and frag or smoke grenade would be incredibly useful.

Actually, no, not when we can make rocket launchers. There is no point at which grenade launcher is better or more versatile than rocket launcher. Just face it, we need missiles in long run and the best path to get there is through rockets which we also need for a lot of reasons (Rocket artillery, RPGs, rockets we can slap on planes/helicopters to get good area-of-attack, so on).

[Aseaheru]

 Kot, three words: Close quarters combat.

 Grenade launchers dont have balckblast, and all the issues that has. Even things with limited blackblast (say, the rhino recoilless rifle of cheese) only have that by launching something out the back that you do not want to be in the way of, and in rockets its a big ole burst of fire.

 Also, theres indirect fire, which grenade launchers can do and rockets cant really, along with versatility. Rockets are slightly more limited than grenades, mostly because they are a fair deal larger and heavier than any form of grenade, so its less effective to have things like flares, smoke, and similar rockets to hand out to infantry squads.


 Yes, we want rocket launchers someday. But we also want grenade launchers, and probably just normal grenades someday.

Andrea, not right now. One of the things I was hoping to address with the launcher.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

What name is going to be used for the revision of the landing craft and the revision of the rifle?

[Aseaheru]

 I say that for large changes we add on the designation "(base designation) mod(number)", and for smaller changes "9base designation)(mod number if applicable) star"

[Kot]

Kot, three words: Close quarters combat.

Step 1.
Procure RPG-7.
Step 2.
Screw off the protective cap on the end.
Step 3.
Stab the enemy with your new spear.
Step 4.
? ? ?
Step 5.
Profit!

On the more serious note - it's getting modern now, bayonet charges and hugging the enemy is getting a bit stale. And even then, I'll rather slam a man with my bazooka club than M203... something, also I don't exactly see how you're planning to use a grenade launcher in anti-tank role...

atleast two forms of armor piercing rounds, one using magnesium based steel and the other manganese based

I mean, explain to me how do you expect a solid slug you proposed as a functional anti-tank projectile at... what, 75 m/s? Granted, you mentioned use of HEAT, but considering that grenades usually lack any kind of stabilization (as in, those tumble a lot during flight), it's not going to be accurate enough to use shaped charges with good effect consistently.

Grenade launchers dont have balckblast, and all the issues that has. Even things with limited blackblast (say, the rhino recoilless rifle of cheese) only have that by launching something out the back that you do not want to be in the way of, and in rockets its a big ole burst of fire.

Let's just replace the RPG-7 initial explosive booster with PIAT style lauching system if the existence of backblast is that much issue for you. Or this.

Also, theres indirect fire, which grenade launchers can do and rockets cant really, along with versatility. Rockets are slightly more limited than grenades, mostly because they are a fair deal larger and heavier than any form of grenade, so its less effective to have things like flares, smoke, and similar rockets to hand out to infantry squads

As for indirect fire - well, we had our mortar back during the Forenian wars that was basically rocket launcher. And even then, with enough skill you could theoretically use the rocket launcher as one in the same way you want to use a grenade launcher. And even then, rockets lead to missiles and missiles are the most indirect-fire weapon that exists. As for weight and size - let me put this here again. Okay, granted, it's still bigger than a grenade but it's practically a tie with a grenade launcher (compare loaded weight of M79 that is nearly 3kgs versus a little over 2kgs of Komar).

Yes, we want rocket launchers someday. But we also want grenade launchers, and probably just normal grenades someday.

Maybe, it's not like that I don't enjoy blasting people with GMGs, especially since they're the closest feeling to firing a bolter you can get, but rockets and missiles will be more useful. We need to first make rockets, which will (maybe not perfectly, but always) fill the niche of grenade launchers and partially grenades, and then we will need to convert them to stuff like MLRSes, guided missiles, rocket pods that we could mount on planes or helicopters or whatnot. Grenade launchers are cool, but we have limited amount of design actions so we have to squeeze the most out of them to be better than those... other guys (who are we fighting again?)

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

I say that for large changes we add on the designation "(base designation) mod(number)", and for smaller changes "9base designation)(mod number if applicable) star"

Could you give a precise name rather than just a format?  As well, the current rifle listing you have is lacking a description, projected cost, type, and designation.  The way the ship listing is written, I can just consult the original design document.

[Aseaheru]

 Kot, yer kinda forgetting urban combat, which we will have to deal with at some point. A PIAT or Komar type system still have to deal with length and the fact that they have but a single round in them. The grenade launcher also has to deal with its single round, but its also attached to a assault rifle.

 Yes, the pure kinetic anti-tank stuff is silly 99.9999999% of the time. So are gyrojets, particularly with technology levels of the time and place. Someday we can work on effective ones. Someday.

 Rockets are harder for use as indirect fire in close engagements, mostly due to the fact that they are self-powered. They are also far more obvious.

 The M79 isint the best example, nor is anything with a cased grenade thanks to the design, the GP-25(which is more the thing I am aiming for) weighs 1.5kg, and, unlike the Komar, is reusable.

-edit-

 The revision of the AS-AR34 should be called the AS-AR34 Mod A thanks to all its changes we are doing to it, and I think the landing craft should be called the NG-IB51c* "Cockle", since its minor changes only.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

The revision of the AS-AR34 should be called the AS-AR34 Mod A thanks to all its changes we are doing to it, and I think the landing craft should be called the NG-IB51c* "Cockle", since its minor changes only.

Projected cost and specific components of the AS-AR34 Mod A?

[Kot]

Kot, yer kinda forgetting urban combat, which we will have to deal with at some point. A PIAT or Komar type system still have to deal with length and the fact that they have but a single round in them. The grenade launcher also has to deal with its single round, but its also attached to a assault rifle.

Considering the nature of the terrain, I would say it will proably be mostly jungles or someshit, though I never been to those islands. Also, as evidenced by American troops in Iraq and wherever there are Talibans, RPGs make scary ambush weapons in urban situations.

Yes, the pure kinetic anti-tank stuff is silly 99.9999999% of the time. So are gyrojets, particularly with technology levels of the time and place. Someday we can work on effective ones. Someday.

The Gyrojets are basically a joke anyway. I mean, just like Andres was obssesed with Wunderwaffe, I will be obsessed with rockets, and that includes gyrojets.

Rockets are harder for use as indirect fire in close engagements, mostly due to the fact that they are self-powered. They are also far more obvious.

I'm not really going to argue about the indirect fire because I still don't see how your underbarrel mounted grenade launcher can be effective in that. Also, missiles.

The M79 isint the best example, nor is anything with a cased grenade thanks to the design, the GP-25(which is more the thing I am aiming for) weighs 1.5kg, and, unlike the Komar, is reusable.

Which we may make reusable. It could just use regular RPG-7 firing pin system or something. And still, having rockets as technology will open up way more options than grenade launchers.

[Aseaheru]

Compiling list... Here we go.

Spoiler: AS-AR34 Mod A (click to show/hide)

AS-AR34 Mod A

-Rework of fire selection lever, adding three-round burst mode(this is low priority), fixing stickiness
-Addition of extra tactical rails, notably on bottom of handguard, sides of handguard
-Development of suppressor and sub-sonic munitions
-Improving iron sights, make them easier to use (white painted posts, glow in the dark ones?)
-Development of optional stocks for rifle, including collapsible, adjustable

End cost, projected, 2 ore

>Kot

 At range RPGs make !!FUN!! ambush weapons. Inside buildings, RPGs are death to friendlies.

 Anyways, working on the warheads for the grenades will help out with warheads on the rockets. Particularly if we get a HEAT grenade.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Results of the revision, based upon the data provided.

NG-IB51c* "Cockle"
A slight modification to the original NG-IB51c that had managed to fix the problems with locking beam through a few resource-intensive methods and the drop ramps do not stick or let in water anymore.  However, the modifications to the locking beam frequently cause the craft to beach a distance great enough from the shore the tanks cannot be deployed without a fairly high failure rate if not waterproofed themselves.
Target cost: 3 Ore, 2 Oil
Transport Capability: Same as NG-IB51c
size: Very Small
type: Ship

State: Excessively Expensive

AS-AR34 Mod A

An upgrade to the original AS-AR34 designed by New Guinean engineers.  The fire selection lever is less likely to stick than the version upon the original rifle and has access to a three-round burst mode in addition to the single shot and full auto modes.  However, the adjustments to reduce the stick within the fire selection has made it too loose and firing the weapon can cause it to jump to another setting suddenly.  Tactical rails have been added to the rifle along the bottom and side of the handguard.  An inbuilt suppressor and subsonic munitions are added to the rifle.  While the sheer zeal by which this was done has made the rifle virtually silent, the stopping power of it has plummeted.  The stock is able to be replaced with a collapsable or a adjustable variant.

(3 Ore)

New Tech
In-built Suppressors [+1 Expense for 5 Turns of Production]
Three-Round Burst Fire [+1 Expense for 5 Turns of Production]
Improved Iron Sights [+1 Expense for 5 Turns of Production]
Replaceable Stocks [+1 Expense for 5 Turns of Production]

New Ammunition
Subsonic 7.62L Rounds [New ammunition does not add expense levels]

Current State: Theoretical

Going to get started upon writing the next turn.  In case you were wondering, you had a 3 and a 2 with your rolls after they were modified by the +1 to the revision...

[Kot]

At range RPGs make !!FUN!! ambush weapons. Inside buildings, RPGs are death to friendlies.

Roofs.

Anyways, working on the warheads for the grenades will help out with warheads on the rockets. Particularly if we get a HEAT grenade.

The problem isin't warhead, the problem is engines, stabilization and the rest of actually getting the rocket to fly tech.

An inbuilt suppressor and subsonic munitions are added to the rifle. 

Did you roll for the inbuilt suppressor or did we fuck up the roll so horrendously that we got this piece of shit? I mean, holy crap, everything in this round went so fucking badly for now that I don't even remember when was the last time we fucked up so hard.
>assault craft that is excessively expensive and has trouble actually delivering shit
>gun that is THEO-FUCKING-RETICAL and is basically one huge fuckup (TOO LOOSE? TOO FUCKING LOOSE? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH) and I'm not even sure if I should blame rolls for the fact that we added a completly useless feature to it. I mean, why the fuck in-built suppressors when we had regular ones from pistol, JUST RESIZE THE FUCKING THING. At least we got some techs, crappy but always.

I just hope we will still use the previous versions that aren't fucking broken.

[Funk]

Yes, the pure kinetic anti-tank stuff is silly 99.9999999% of the time. So are gyrojets, particularly with technology levels of the time and place. Someday we can work on effective ones. Someday.

The Gyrojets are basically a joke anyway. I mean, just like Andres was obssesed with Wunderwaffe, I will be obsessed with rockets, and that includes gyrojets.

I like the idea of an rocket pistol but we have to move away from the idea of
Gyrojets(too small) and kinetic dammage.

Instead think of the german Sturmpistole]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmpistole]Sturmpistole crossed with a 40mm grenade launcher, the explosives do all the damage.
Id say we should build our own in a larger caliber say 30 or 35mm and go for a revolver.

[RAM]

Yikes, tempted to just use the base versions... Still, we need the landing craft that doesn't leak and the rifle would be decent for covert forces. Maybe they could just stuff some greasy cloth in the ramps to stop them from leaking...