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[Aigre Excalibur]

1. Your range bonuses with a reflex and acog with the m14 will be Melee:1 Short:1 Medium: 1 Long: -2 Extreme: -4

2. It's a sniper, and not modified for CQB like the M14 EBR is. It gets Melee: -1 Short: -1 Medium: +1 Long: 0 Extreme: -1

3. AP doesn't ignore cover penalties, it lets you shoot a hole through cover. Cover can obscure as well as stop bullets.

4. Yub

5. Second-hand gun price or scrap-metal price. You won't get that good of a deal. Best to pool surplus equipment.

6. Okays.

7. Go ahead

8. 9. Go nuts.

[syvarris]

1.Okay, so according to what you just said, between an M14 w/ ACOG sight, and an M14 w/ snipersight, the gun has an equal medium bonus, a lower long bonus, and a much lower extreme bonus.  You've said it's possible to mount reflex optics alongside other optics before, so we can ignore the melee and close bonuses.  My question is: Am I correct that the ACOG sight is entirely inferior to the Snipersight?  If so, was that intentional or accidental on your part?

2.Also, the M14 went from -1 melee to +1 melee bonus, just by adding a reflex sight.  This would imply the reflex sight either grants +2 and not +1, like it says (which would give reflex shotguns +3 melee), or it replaces any penalty to melee (which would mean heavy machine guns can have their -2 melee shifted to +1 melee if you slap a reflex on them).  Is one of these options correct, or did you make a mistake?

3.If I mount a reflex sight on an M26 mass, what range bonuses will that M26 have?  Remember that an M26's base bonuses are (+1 melee, -1 close, N/A further out).

4.I understand that cover obscures as well as protects, but it shouldn't be as difficult to shoot a man who only has concealment rather than cover.  Imagine it like this; You have an assault rifle, and there's a guy downrange standing behind a paper wall, only his right shoulder and head visible.  Since paper won't stop any bullets, wouldn't he be easier to hit than a guy who's behind the side of a tank instead?  With an M107 firing .50 AP, basically everything short of that tank is just concealment, not cover.

4 con't.Here's two ways to handle concealment easily: Grant anyone with concealment, but not cover, half the cover bonus they'd get if it were real cover.  So, low concealment gives -1 to your enemies' shots, and high concealment gives -2.  Alternatively, you could just deduct the shooter's intuition score from enemy cover bonuses if the shooter tries to shoot through cover--that would mean someone with +4 intuition and an M107 would basically ignore cover, though.

5.Your system for handling automatic fire is flawed, in my opinion.  When I fired a fifty round burst at ayys in low cover, using an M240, 49 bullets hit, because I rolled a six.  You rolled a d50 to decide that number, but that would still average out to at least twenty five bullets hitting on the average six.  A M240 firing .308 is not that controllable, certainly not by a person with below-average strength--I have -1 strength.  I propose that you either make larger weapons require some strength to wield effectively ((So I wouldn't be able to use that M240 without at least a +2)), or, if you're willing to have more complexity, reduce the number of shots that can be fired in full auto if one has lower strength than the requirement.  Otherwise, strength is a virtually useless stat--It hasn't affected prying elevators open, lifting a heavy load, or even melee attacks, judging by Soylent Green's little sim fight.

5 con't.TL;DR: I suggest you make large weapons have strength requirements for use.  I also recommend you get a better system for automatic fire in general, since Azy's valient corridor defense wasn't a good method either, but I can't think of a good one at the moment.

6.This is a wargame.  Specifics in the below spoiler.  Do note, I'm more putting this here so it's written down and can be reviewed--while I do want to know how the situation is handled, don't stress yourself to do it.

Spoiler: Axe vs. shotgun melee performance (click to show/hide)

Firstly, please mark any die roll with the relevant skill that was rolled.  Also, feel free to just make up numbers rather than actually roll--I just want to know the sequence and bonuses, I don't actually care about what happens to the test subjects.

There are three types of people that I will refer to.  A, who has +0 stats across the board.  He's the target.  B, who has +0 across the board except for melee and shooting; he has +2 shooting (no bonus), and -2 melee.  Lastly, there's C, who has identical stats to B except he has +2 melee, -2 shooting.

Round 1:
A is standing behind full cover, unarmed and refusing to run away.  He'll try to block or dodge shots, but won't move from his position.  B is armed with an M26 shotgun w/ reflex sight (+2 melee bonus?), and is standing ten feet away from A on a side that grants A a cover bonus.

B charges A, and attempts to shoot A with his shotgun at melee range.  He will also attempt to flank around the cover before taking his shot, negating A's cover bonus.  How does this work exactly?


Round 2:
Identical setup, except B is replaced by C wielding an axe.  Immediately upon starting, C charges A and attempts to kill him.  How's it go?

7.Simple question: If I suppress someone with all 25 rounds of a UMP45 SMG, and then the suppressed person attempt to shoot at somebody, how much of a penalty does the suppression confer to their shot?

8.Same as 8, except I suppress with a 50-round M240 burst, rather than a UMP45.  Does the M240 confer a larger penalty, due to firing twice as many rounds or because each round is more dangerous/louder?

[Aigre Excalibur]

Rules rewrite in progress. Probably gonna just ditch mods. Gameplay wise, I want range and all that to be dependent on the weapon, the main tool. With maybe the standard service rifle as the main exception.

Also, ammo... I've not played much original xcom, but I love xenonaut games where the troops run out of ammo and you start looting random shit to throw at the aliens. I'm not sure if that's actually good gameplay though.

[Aigre Excalibur]

Rules, Char sheet form and armory:

Firing and movement sequence:

Scenario A: An enemy squad ambushes the player team in the flank, who shoots first?
Players can roll intuition to be alerted of the ambush
Overwatching players can roll intuition to get a first reaction shot
Players in CQB who are alerted of the ambush roll dexterity for shooting/attacking first

Scenario B: Players dismount from a vehicle to engage an enemy squad 100m from their position while under fire.
Overwatching enemy shoots first, as players must move before firing. Players under fire may roll for mind to check if suppressed.
Players return fire after moving and receiving fire.

Scenario C: Players perform CQB assault against an alert enemy.
Enemy rolls for intuition if ambushed.
Enemy rolls for dex to reaction fire. Players may still be wounded or fail suppression checks when receiving fire while assaulting.
Players roll to fire, possibly negating cover if close enough.
Melee combatants may get into snuggle range if desired.

Scenario D: Players perform CQB assault after a grenade spam.
Players roll dex to see if they drop anything on their foot.
Enemy rolls intuition and/or dex to dive for cover.
Enemy may roll intuition and pre-emptively throw their grenades before the players throw theirs. If enemy is in grenade range, then so are the players.
Said players then dive for cover, possibly negating their own grenade throws.
If assault is still possible, players rush enemy position.
Enemies able to reaction fire roll to do so.
Players fire.
Proceed to snuggle range if desired.

Scenario E: Firing into melee
Shooter rolls [-4] and hits friendlies on a miss.
Shooters may get into snuggle distance with a pistol and "melee shoot" with it without penalties for shooting into melee.
Pistols in melee can still be "blocked" by opposing melee rolls.

Scenario F: A shotgun wielding player assaults an enemy melee unit behind cover
Player enters snuggle distance  rounding the corner to engage the enemy. Enemy and player snuggle in a CQB fight. Shotgun becomes a club. Or player draws a knife or pistol to do the snuggling.

Scenario G: The use of a shotgun in room clearing:
Player breaches into a room. Player puts shotgun rounds into visible targets. If player is rushed by enemy, he takes reaction shots with the shotgun at melee distance. If enemy gets into snuggle range, shotgun becomes relatively useless as a gun, and player draws his knife or pistol for snuggle work.


Firing rules:

Semi and burst fire get the following number of shots/bursts:
3 at melee range
2 at short
1 at Medium and above

Firing at targets in the open: 1d6 + [skill bonus]

Firing at targets in "full" cover: 1d6 + [skill bonus] + [-4]
Full cover is cover that completely conceals most of the body. Like a good trench, wall or corner.

Firing at targets in "half" cover: 1d6 + [skill bonus] + [-2]
Half cover is any cover in the area that soldiers automatically find. It only works in one direction.

Firing at a sprinting target: 1d6 + [skill bonus] + [-target's dex]

Firing after sprinting: [-2] penalty

Suppression: [-3] to shooting and actions requiring concentration.

Spray and Pray: Unloads the magazine in the general direction of the target for [-3] for automatic weapons, [-4] for semi-automatics. There will also be a small chance to hit, especially at close distances.

Melee: [intuition] roll if ambushed.
[dex] vs [opponents' dex] for striking and dodging.
[strength] vs [opponents' strength] for binding, grappling.
Binds can force opponents into locks unless the opponent successfully disengages.
Binds prevent dodging or easy withdrawals from the melee.
Successful player in the bind scores an attack. Losing combatant rolls strength to block or dex to parry/disengage. Both blocking and parrying are just saving throws.

Hitpoints and Damage
Endurance 0 humans get 100 hitpoints, representing 100 Hecajoules of trauma soaking capability.
Spitzer bullets have their damage divided by 3 on contact with flesh. Round and flat nosed bullets do their full damage. Expanding bullets *may* do their full damage.

vs flesh:

5.56 NATO does 6 damage to flesh, 20 damage to materials
7.62 NATO does 12 damage to flesh, 35 damage to materials
12.7mm NATO does 60 damage to flesh, 180 damage to materials
.45 ACP does 8 damage
00 Buckshot does 8x5 damage
9mm Parabellum does 6 damage
HK 4.6×30mm: 5 damage
Explosives are another story: energy/(4/3 PI r^3)

additions:
.44 Magnum: 20 damage to flesh and materials.

steel bayonets do around 6 damage
steel hatchets do around 12 damage
purpose built combat swords do around 20 damage

AP steel tips: negates 20 armor
AP steel core: negates 40 armor
AP tungsten core: negates 60 armor
Hollow Points: x2 flesh damage

Armor:
Resistance = thicknessvalue/cos(1d90)
Overmatching vs armor not simulated.
Level IIIA kevlar: 5 hecajoules base resistance. - out of 10 rolls, 3 were above 20.
Level III Ceramic Plate/5mm RHA Steel/12mm Ceramics: 30 base resistance, 100 Ablative Hitpoints.
Level IV Ceramic Plate/10mm RHA Steel/24mm Ceramics: 40 base resistance, 200 Ablative hitpoints. - you'll take a single .50 cal round and live.
Per mm RHA steel above 10mm: 4 resistance, 20 ablative hitpoints per mm (7.84g/cm^3)
Per mm Ceramics above 24mm: 3 resistance, 15 ablative hitpoints per mm (3.84g/cm^3)


Character Sheets:
Almost exactly the same as ER. Unconventional and Exotic are turned into melee and explosive skills respectively. General Knowledge is now science, which is used in data collection and specimen handling.  There is no war magic in this 21st century world.

All characters get 5 xp into shooting for free. So that only really kicks in if you don't take shooting levels at all.

Take 1 free level up, they'll need it.

Pay is $10,000 sign on bounty and $10,000 per mission day.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Strength:
Dexterity:
Endurance:
Charisma:
Mind:
Fate:
Intuition:

Engineering:
Shooting:
Melee:
Explosives:
Auxiliary:
Medical:
Science (Gen. Knowledge):

Armory:

Shooting:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Personal Weapons:

Ammo:
0.45 ACP $0.35 each
0.45 ACP AP $1 each
5.56 NATO $0.35 each
5.56 NATO AP $1
00 Buckshot $0.35 each
7.62 NATO $0.50 each
7.62 NATO AP $2 each
12.7mm NATO $4 each
12.7mm NATO AP $10 each

.44 Magnum: $0.50 each
.44 Magnum AP steel core: $2 each
HK 4.6×30mm AP steel core: $1 each.

Hollow points cost the same as FMJ rounds.

Magazines: $10 per stanag/box/belt

H&K Mk 23 Offensive Handgun:
Cost: 1000
Ammo: .45 ACP
Magazine: 12 rounds
Firing: Semi-automatic, 3 rounds at melee distance, 2 rounds at short range. (0) Spray and Pray at [-4] accuracy.
Range: Melee: 0 Short: -1 Medium: NA
Links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_Mark_23
Requirements: None

Smith and Wesson Model 629
Cost: 1500
Ammo: .44 Magnum
Magazine: 6 round cylinder
Firing: Semi-Automatic
Range: Melee: 0 Short: -1 Medium: -2
Requirements: 2 strength to handle the recoil comfortably if shooting more than one round.

Heckler & Koch MP7
Cost: 2000
Ammo: HK 4.6×30mm
Magazine: 30 round clip
Firing: Semi-automatic (0), 3 round burst fire (-1), Spray and pray (-3)
Range: Melee: -1 Short: 0 Medium: -2
Requirements: None/-2 strength

M4A4 Carbine
Cost: 2000
Ammo: 5.56 NATO
Magazine: 30 round STANAG
Firing: Semi-automatic (0), or 3 round burst fire [-1] or Spray and pray [-3]
Range: Melee: -1 Short: 0 Medium: -1
Links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_carbine
Requirements: 0 strength

M1014 Benelli M4 Super 90
Cost: 3000
Ammo: 12 gauge, 00 buckshot.
Magazine: 12 rounds Internal Tube
Firing: Semi-Automatic (0) Spray and Pray at [-4] accuracy
Range: Melee: 0 Short: -1 Medium: NA
Links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benelli_M4
Requirements: 0 strength

M14 Enhanced Battle Rifle
Cost: 3000
Ammo: 5.56 NATO
Magazine: 20 round box
Firing: Semi-automatic (0), Spray and Pray [-5]
Range: Melee: -1 Short: 0 Medium: 0 Long: -1 Extreme: -2
Links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_14_Enhanced_Battle_Rifle
Requirements: 1 strength

Crew Served Weapons:

M249 SAW
Cost: 4000
Ammo: 5.56 NATO
Magazine: 100 round box
Firing: Semi-Automatic (0), Controlled 10 round Bursts [-1], 50 round long bursts [-3], Spray [-4]
Range: Melee: -2 Short: 0 Medium: -1 Long: -2 Extreme: NA
Links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M249_light_machine_gun
Requirements: 1 strength, 2 strength to sprint with it.

M240 GPMG
Cost: 6600
Ammo: 7.62 NATO
Magazine: 200 round belt
Firing: Semi-Automatic (0), Controlled 5 round Bursts [-1], 20 round long bursts [-2], Spray [-4]
Other: has to be fired prone/deployed
Range: Melee: NA Short: 0 Medium: -1 Long: -2 Extreme: -4
Links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M240_machine_gun
Requirements: 1 strength, 2 strength to sprint with it

M2 Browning HMG
Cost: 10000
Ammo: 12.7mm NATO
Magazine: 200 round belt
Firing: Semi-Automatic (0), Controlled 5 round Bursts [-1], 20 round long bursts [-2], Spray [-4]
Other: has to be fired prone/deployed
Range: Melee: NA Short: 0 Medium: -1 Long: -2 Extreme: -3
Links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M2_Browning
Requirements: 2 strength just to move it.

Explosives:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

M67/M68 Fragmentation Grenade
Payload: 10g TNT equivalent
Cost: 30
Damage: Blast :400/(4/3 PI * distance^3), 95 point blank, 11 at 2m, 3.5 at 3m, shrapnel equivalent to blast damage number, 11 damage per shrapnel
Links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M67_grenade

AN-M8 White Smoke Grenade
Cost: 100
Effect: concealing White Smoke

M84 Flashbang
Cost: 150
Effect: Stun by air pressure shockwave and big light flash

M203 Grenade Launcher
Cost: 600
Range: Melee: 0 Short: 0 Medium: -1
Payload: 40mm grenade, 10g
Fragmentation Grenade/HEDP - $60
Smoke - 100
Flashbang - 150

M32 MGL
Cost: 6000
Range: Melee: 0 Short: 0 Medium: -1
Payload: 40mm grenade

AT4 Disposable Recoiless Rifle
Cost: 1500
Payload: 400g OCTOL mix, HEDP rocket
damage: Blast: 16000/(4/3 PI * distance^3) AP 160, 3819 point blank. 477 at 2m, 30 at 5m. + shrapnel, 11 damage per shrapnel
Range: Short: 0 Medium: -1 Long: NA
Requirements: 2 strength

M183 C-4 Satchel Charge Demolition Kit
Cost: 250
Payload: 9.1 Kg of C-4

M150 Penetrating Augmented Munition (PAM)
Cost: 3000
Payload: 90.72 Kg of C-4
Notes: used to destroy the kind of bridge foundations that take years to build. Or for knocking on fortress doors that won't open for your regular breaching charges.
Requirements: 4 strength to move it comfortably. 2 strength just to lift it.
You can of course lug your heavy explosives on a trolley or cargo pallet.

Door-Breaching Frame Charge
Cost: 50
Payload: 500g of C-4, shaped to bust doors.

Special Atomic Demolition Munition
Cost: ?
Payload 1-10KT tactical nukes.
Notes: Thermonuclear: Clean, no radioactive fallout, but huge shockwaves.
Logistics: Might fit into a suitcase, or a cargo pallet. Push it around.

Melee:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Fist
Damage: strength

M9 Bayonet
Cost: 300
Damage: 6?
Attacks: ?
Notes: High-Quality Combat knife
Requirements: None

VTAC Tomahawk
Cost: 300
Damage: 12?
Attacks: ?
Requirements: 1 strength

Longsword
Cost: 3000
Damage: 20?
Attacks: ?
Requirements: 1 strength

Chainsaw
Cost: 600
Damage: ?
Attacks:

Vehicles and Computer Systems (auxiliary):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Technicals, Civilian Vehicles:
Requirements: 0 Auxiliary, -1 Aux can get you from point to point without crashing if there are no other difficulties.
Cost: Free/Borowed

M113 APC
Cost: 40000/Borrowed
Armor: ~10mm RHA equivalent hardened aluminium
Durability: 40 resistance, 1200 Hull
Cargo: 2 crew, 11 passengers
Hardpoints: 1 machine gun mount
Requirements: 0 Auxiliary to drive

UH-60 Blackhawk
Cost: 1000000/Borrowed
Armor: Kevlar plates
Durability : 30 Resistance, 480 Hull
Cargo: 2 Crew, 11 passengers
Hardpoints: 2 door machine gun mounts
Requirements: 1 Auxiliary to drive

High-Altitude Drop aircraft:
Borrowed C-130s

Hacking Interfaces:
To be researched

Medical:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

All in one first aid kits, drugs sold separately:
Cost: 1000

Morphine in a syringe: 20 per shot
Adrenalin in a syringe: 20 per shot
Hemostatics: 10 per dose per bandage
Nausea Medicine: 5 per shot - use after throwing people out of aircraft when they fail endurance rolls.
Universal antidotes: 20 per shot, contains charcoal as the main active ingredient.

Critical Wounds and medical system: WIP

Bodychart: 1d10
1-2: L/R legs
3-4: L/R arms
5-8 Hips to upper chest
9-10: neck and head.

Base chance of arterial bleeding from all wounds: 20%
Base chance of thoracic cavity punctures from chest wounds: 75%
Base chance of organ damage from chest wounds: 50%

Skeletal system damage probability: 25%?

Body Armor:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

USA Army-Surplus Interceptor Armor
Cost: 1600
Level IIIA Kevlar suit, with resistance 5.
80% torso coverage with level III ceramic plates.
Protection:
5 Resistance, body to neck.
30 Resistance Chest, 80% coverage. 100 hitpoint ablation (total)

Ballistic Assault Shield
Cost: 3000
Level IV Assault shield
Protection:
40 Resistance, 200 hitpoint ablation
Requirements: 0 strength to use it 2-handed to provide cover for others, 1 strength to use it with a pistol, 2 strength to use with a sub-machine gun
1-handed shooting has (-1) aim and horrendous recoil control.

HEADS-UP
Cost: First is Free
Material: Kevlar Plate
Protection:
10 resistance, head. 10 Hitpoint Ablation
Other features:
On-Board Microcomputer
FOF identification system
Tactical Maps
Miscellaneous data storage
Tetris,
Personal video collection.

Research and experimental gear:

I heard tinker was a bad idea, so maybe we'll do something more structured.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Phase 0 of ERRANT research is catching up to current human tech.
Infantry is still as cost efficient as it was a thousand years ago, which is why you're still serving as infantry. It is relatively easy to get modern small arms.
Personal protection is still quite bad. But there are options with enough money and research.

Phase 0 weapons:
Air-burst munitions
computerized weapon systems
drones - land and air
Not so legal weapons - biological agents, chemical weapons, etc.
Bigger weapons - better vehicles and heavy support weapons
guided weapons
Active-Denial Systems
Active-anti-rocket countermeasures

Phase 0 gear:
Night and Thermal Vision
Counter-measures to enemy Night and Thermal Vision
Stun Grenade Counter-measures
Radar and Radio counters and counter-counters
stealth for vehicles

Phase 0 Armour:
Full body ceramic plating
Silicon gel armour
Modern vehicle composite armor
NRBC hardening, EMP hardening
On-board medical systems, NRBC hardened personal armor
Combat exoskeletons

Phase 1 would be the maturation of current human technology, things that are achievable, but not quite in the prototyping phase yet.

Phase 1 Weapons:
Railguns
Practical military lasers
advanced surveillance and reconnaissance drones

Phase 1 Gear:
Active Camouflage
Offensive Applications of Wireless hacking
Mid-Air Hijacking developments
Space-Flight?
Crew based vehicular combat

Phase 1 Armor:
Electrically hardened polarized plates
Combat Suits

Phase 2 would be the development of future weapon systems to match alien technology. They generally involve things we can dream of but are unattainable without breakthroughs in the way we understand natural laws.

Faster-than-light travel
Cold fusion
man-portable weaponized plasma
force shields

[Egan_BW]

Alright, most of my questions have to do with snuggling, largely because that's what I'm fond of.

I remember that ayy armor and shields are very resistant to .45 ammunition. If I have to fight an ayylmao in a combat harness, and I have only a pistol, I figure my best chance is to land as many shots as possible.
So, if I were to Spray and Pray with a pistol at snuggling range, would that still be +4, or would there be a bonus for being at point blank?

I'd like to request that you add a machine pistol and/or a shortened shotgun, for more firepower while still being usable while snuggling.

Finally, can we go above +2 in character creation? I don't really like +2 being the effective skill ceiling until three missions in. :/

[Aigre Excalibur]

Snuggling ranged shooting:

Possibly opposed dex rolls, enemy would block your line of fire if you fail.
You can also aim at body parts without penalty while snuggling.
Spamming the trigger would still make your fire less controllable.
A point-blank non-penetrating pistol shot against an armored opponent could still knock it off balance though.

I'm thinking that a good solution for pistol combat vs advanced armors and shields would be to prototype a magnum caliber pistol just for the job.

Ok, I'll let you go above +2, -2. Ze consequences are on your head.

[syvarris]

I'm not seeing so many obvious exploits this time, so I guess this system is better.  More mature, certainly.  I'm kinda wondering how we'll survive when the ayys have every advanatage and we don't have any exploits, though.  I also do see plenty of unrealistic bits, bu everyone has their own ideas on what portions of a milsim should be realistic, and which should be sacrificed for gameplay.

I will say that you should specify some things more.  You specify the penetration gained by three different types of AP bullet, but don't specify which calibers have which AP types, and you never say the alternate types cost any more or less.  Are we supposed to look up each caliber ourselves to check whether there's a tungaten core loading?

Also, you say hollowpoints have x3 wound damage, but don't say they modify AP at all, which is the largest drawback of HP.  What's stopping us from exclusively using HP and HP ammo, aside fro  the fact that you never specify the cost of HP in any caliber?

I'd suggest that you just list the basic cost of each round, and then say you can get AP (of the three different categories) loadings for certain multiples of the price.  Say, steel tips might cost 2x normal, steel cores 4x, tungsten cores 8x.  Hollowpoints 3x, maybe.  This is kinda unrealistic, since, for instance, no .45 AP core loading exists to my knowledge--but it's a good game mechanic.

Also, could we please have a cost and stats for an SMG?  You mention they exist, but didn't include one in the armory.

Another thing you mention is that one handed shooting has horrendous recoil control.  What does this mean?  Automatice fire always counts as spray and pray, with a -4 penalty?  Does it affect semi-auto fire?

Can we fire with two pistols, both one-handed?  It would grant a global -1 penalty for every shot, but statistically firing twice as many bullets would offset that penalty.

You mentioned that you can aim at body parts without penalty when firing in melee with a pistol.  Does that mean there's normally a penalty for aiming at a specific body part in standard combat?  What is it?  -1?


You mentioned we can go above "+2/-2"?  Does this mean we can have penalties below -2?

Is the cost of a certain number of pluses equal to the number of pluses?  So, you could have -2 shooting, +2 melee?

[Egan_BW]

Time to put every stat at +4 except Fate, which is... -277!

[syvarris]

Exactly my thoughts.

Upon another look, I've noticed more problems.  Firstly, melee weapons are almost always inferior to pistols.  The basic pistol does 3x8 damage (more with HP or AP bullets), which is always better than the knife, and better than the hatchet unless the enemy has resistance five or better--and even then, only if you don't have AP.  The longsword is equivalent to the revolver, except for costing twice as much, and with +2 strength you can shoot the revolver thrice in one turn, tripling your damage.  Throw AP or HP on top of that, and there is little reason to ever touch a longsword.

If pistols still use shooting when used at melee range, this entirely invalidates the melee skill from what I've seen, as even unarmed combat uses stats and not melee.

I'm also assuming melee weapons are blocked by armor, despite that being unrealistic.  It wouldn't make much sense for the longsword to do eight more damage than the tomahawk if that damage couldn't be mitigated.

Aigre also hasn't specified how many more hitpoints you get for more/less endurance.

I'd be curious how medkits interact with a hitpoint system, too.

There's no entry for 40mm grenades, but there are entries for 40mm launchers... Are supposed to use frags, or did Aigre forget?

Frag grenades only causing fragmentation damage within 3m is stupid.  They should just use fate, like in ER.  -277 Fate means every fragment is redirected towards you regardless of distance... only to impact your shield.

[Twinwolf]

I think a -277 Fate character would have died before they were born. And so would their parents. And grandparents. And great grandparents. And so on.

Either that or they are in a constant state of horrible, crippling pain, that only gets worse as they get used to it, and can't possibly kill them due to their +4 END.

[Aigre Excalibur]

Well a -277 fate guy would be a lot of fun, he couldn't die from his own mistakes because he's just to good at everything, but the entire universe would hate him for the abomination that he is. None of it would be directly his fault though.

Traffic would always congest just as he gets into the car. Trains would break down whenever he thinks of going anywhere. His school exploded before he could graduate. Every company he tried to work in had some other dishonest or malicious employee that closed the place down before he could ever get a paycheck.

He would be a reverse of the interplanetary man of mystery from AGP. ( http://tinyurl.com/h2gf3wo ) His luck would be so bad it would be hazardous to everyone around him.

[Aigre Excalibur]

Exactly my thoughts.

Upon another look, I've noticed more problems.  Firstly, melee weapons are almost always inferior to pistols.  The basic pistol does 3x8 damage (more with HP or AP bullets), which is always better than the knife, and better than the hatchet unless the enemy has resistance five or better--and even then, only if you don't have AP.  The longsword is equivalent to the revolver, except for costing twice as much, and with +2 strength you can shoot the revolver thrice in one turn, tripling your damage.  Throw AP or HP on top of that, and there is little reason to ever touch a longsword.

If pistols still use shooting when used at melee range, this entirely invalidates the melee skill from what I've seen, as even unarmed combat uses stats and not melee.

I'm also assuming melee weapons are blocked by armor, despite that being unrealistic.  It wouldn't make much sense for the longsword to do eight more damage than the tomahawk if that damage couldn't be mitigated.

Aigre also hasn't specified how many more hitpoints you get for more/less endurance.

I'd be curious how medkits interact with a hitpoint system, too.

There's no entry for 40mm grenades, but there are entries for 40mm launchers... Are supposed to use frags, or did Aigre forget?

Frag grenades only causing fragmentation damage within 3m is stupid.  They should just use fate, like in ER.  -277 Fate means every fragment is redirected towards you regardless of distance... only to impact your shield.

1. I plan on reducing the HP bonus to x2 instead of x3. It still makes pistols much better than a bayonet, sure.

2. The melee skill can block pistols at melee range

3. 7 hp at -1, 4 at -2. 15 at +1, 20 at +2... There should be researcherable body modifications. I totally want adamantium skeletons and self-regenerating tissue.

4. I need to work on that. I suppose "stopping the bleeding" prevents a hitpoint drain. We could have all open wounds bleed hitpoints until treated.  Adrenalin would prevent the hitpoint loss from affecting combat efficiency. Medical malpractice could turn the drugs into stimulants.

5. 40mm HE is equivalent to a frag grenade... for now.

6. Fragmentation hits will be a matter of probability above 3m. At 10m there is a 9.5% chance of being hit by shrapnel if you are exposed to the blast. Said shrapnel may possibly find its way through chinks in your armor and hit something important in your body. I suppose I could cook a formula to integrate fate as bad luck.

[Devastator]

I'm against body mods.  You have a category of stuff you can buy.. it's gear.  There's another category for stuff that sticks with your character, called stats.  I'd rather not have people be able to buy stats.

[Aigre Excalibur]

I want to do another beta test run, but I keep thinking the numbers look so awkward.

I know what we need. I'll bump the human hitpoints from 1 to 10 kilojoules (100 hecajoules), and let the critical wounds do the talking, rather than having folks automatically faint from a couple of pistol shots. At the same time, I should flesh out the medical and critical hits system.

[syvarris]

Making Aigre hate me, twenty-four bullet points at a time:

AMMO:
1.What source did you use for the energy of the various different bullets?
2.There's three classes of AP ammunition, but it isn't specified what class 5.56, 7.62, and 12.7 AP are.  Are they tungsten-core?
3.Also, the post now says hollow-points are equal in cost to FMJ.  Do you mean AP?  There's no price provided for FMJ.
4.If I shoot someone with .44 HP, how does it react to armor?  If it's five resistance armor, that means it mitigates 5 damage, putting the bullet to 15 damage, which is then doubled due to the HP?  For 30 damage overall?
5.The armory doesn't list any shotgun slugs.  Can we buy them, and if so, at what price?  In theory, a slug should be around damage 40, non-spitzer, and be either steel-core or tungsten core--I know the former exists, but I imagine the latter does as well.
6.Relatedly, 00 Buck has nine pellets, not eight.  I suppose you might've just chosen eight because it matches the muzzle energy more closely, though.

MECHANICS:
7.How is a hit from burst fire calculated?  Is it simply a pass/fail, and if you hit, every shot in the burst hits and deal damage?
8.Is there any difference between suppressing with an SMG, an AR, or an LMG?  Is suppression easier/more effective with an LMG than an SMG?
9.Can we supress with pistols?
10.If a person is shot in the arm, dealing damage to their overall hitpoints, do they take any negative effect before critical existence failure?  Or can I still shoot a pistol with my arm despite having taken six 7.62 rounds to it already?
11.You said one-handed shooting has horrendous recoil control.  What does this mean?  Does it reduce all automatic fire to spray'n'pray?  Allow you to only make one semiauto shot per turn?
12.Are we allowed to dual-wield pistols/SMGs, gaining double the shots per turn in trade for a -1 penalty to each shot?  Statistically, this would be an improvement in most cases.
13.If I use a shield to provide a buddy with cover, does that count as mobile low cover for him, mobile full cover, or does it just grant him the shield's resistance?
14.If low cover, can I use the shield while a buddy is in low cover already to grant him full cover?
15.You mentioned we can aim at body parts without penalty in melee combat--what is the normal cost?  -1?
16.If aimed shots *do* cost only -1, can they be used to easily counter shields by aiming at the revealed arm with only a minor penalty?

STEALTH:
17.Can we please have costs and stats for an SMG?  You've mentioned they exist, but we currently don't have one in the armory.
18.Can we have *truly* suppressed weapons?  I don't mean supressors on M249s and such--that's worthless--but suppressed pistols and SMGs with actual subsonic cartridges.  I figure that if you want us to be fighting asymmetrically, stealth is a much better idea than open combat.
19.Assuming we actually can use real stealth weapons, can we get conversions for the M4s to chamber them in a caliber which is actually effective at subsonic velocities?  Subsonic velocity makes an already weak cartridge (.45, at least in this game) even weaker, so we'd probably prefer something with more oomph.  Perhaps .458 SOCOM, as that can have equivalent energy to the 5.56 but at subsonic speeds, isn't spitzer, and has tungsten core loads.
20.If we do go the stealth route, would moving quietly use dex to avoid alerting ayys?  If so, at what range would a +1 prevent being heard?  Close?  Medium?

MISCELLANY:
21.Since you're significantly altering the game rules, we can rebuild our character sheets, right?
22.When I'm building a char sheet, do pluses after the first still require increasing amounts of negative levels?  I.E, does shooting +4 require 4 negative levels, or 10?
23.As far as I can tell, "hecajoule" isn't a word.  You're probably thinking of a "hectojoule", or a hundred joules.
24.Before, when I asked about drum mags, you said they'd cost 100$ for an M4.  Is that still true?  Can we get .45 drum mags as well?

@Dev
I agree.  Body mods should give new abilities, rather than strengthen old abilities.  Preferably, they should come with partial drawbacks, as well; You can get mimetic skin, and it'll grant -3 to your enemies' attempts to shoot you... but it requires you not wear clothes if you want it to be effective.