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[Madman198237]

I'd go about it a different way, Fallacy.

Either explain to us your suggestions for AR mechanics and we'll disassemble them with utmost violence, or you could walk through a regular turn of, say, ICAR, and tell us what confuses you and what should change.

Or do both, and walk US through a turn in your proposed AR system (First you have to have a selection of rule-changes decided on, however)

[FallacyofUrist]

Well, frankly, I have no idea what die rolls go on behind the scenes in any Arms Race game on these forums. The design and revision rolls make sense, but as to how victory is decided, I have no idea. Every attempt at designing my own behind-the-scenes system so far, however, has resulted in an overly complicated mess with not much flexibility.

[Draignean]

Well, frankly, I have no idea what die rolls go on behind the scenes in any Arms Race game on these forums. The design and revision rolls make sense, but as to how victory is decided, I have no idea. Every attempt at designing my own behind-the-scenes system so far, however, has resulted in an overly complicated mess with not much flexibility.

Oh, that's easy.

I intend to use a mixture of D20s, pagan sacrifice, wikipedia, websites dedicated to war-history nerds buffs, squinting at each group's tech tree, alcohol, personal bias, and which team name generates better search results in google images when paired with individual search terms like 'meme', 'adorable', 'hentai', and 'kitten'.

It's a complex process, but it gets results.

[Happerry]

I'm pretty sure that the only Arms Race that used Dice Rolls, or an actual formal system that you could write down in a rulebook, as the main determinator of 'who won' was the early bits of Wands Race.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Well, frankly, I have no idea what die rolls go on behind the scenes in any Arms Race game on these forums. The design and revision rolls make sense, but as to how victory is decided, I have no idea. Every attempt at designing my own behind-the-scenes system so far, however, has resulted in an overly complicated mess with not much flexibility.

Sensei's actually posted a system on how he does it.  Basically, he has a set of categories and whatever side has a bigger advantage due to quality and cost of their designs in that area gets a point, with ties awarding no points.  Whichever has the most points wins in the area.  The system is somehow weighted based on what the category is as well as terrain and we don't know how that precisely works, but that's the barebones of it.

Given this, we could possibly make a spreadsheet to give values for categories to make what amounts to an Arms Race battle determination grid.  First column would be a list of labels defining categories and subsequent columns being different biomes with data determining what each category's weight in that biome would be.  To keep things balanced, all of the weights could total up to a specific number.

Example for that last bit: For Plains, Hills, and Mountains, Rifles could have a weight of 1 in each for a total of 3, and Tanks could have a weight of 1.5 in Plains, 1 in Hills, and .5 in Mountains also resulting in a total of 3.

This would admittedly result in a bit of min-maxing, but that is kinda done in reality since people do want to get the most effect in an area...

Edit: One thing I can admit is that players and GMs could come up with things that wouldn't fit into existing categories, but if we steadily expand we will get more and more of these unforeseen slots covered.

Edit 2: Probably want to divide between pre and post gunpowder (far future can kinda get bundled up into this latter.  Just need to rename the biomes to planet types, and sea to space, and you can get a rough fit).  They could intermix, but the latter kinda drastically overturned how warfare is waged.  Magic is kinda a difficult fit, but what can't fit into one of the existing categories if you squint (ex. Magic Carpets could considered to work along the lines of aircraft) can be made to have their own section (ex. Summoning).

[Madman198237]

I REALLY prefer a GM-based interpretation, moreso than the numbered system Zanzet proposes. Basically, you have to decide which is better. Roll a die for additional randomness and !!FUN!! if you want, but ultimately you have to decide if the armored flamethrower trooper does more OVERALL DAMAGE (Remember that it's not just "Their sniper rifle in a one-man duel versus our sniper rifle", it's "Their sniper hits harder, but can't fire fast enough, so in the close-quarters of the city it's less useful. On the plains, however, it's longer range and greater stopping power means that whenever a guy pops up out the other trench, he's dead instantly, whereas the other sniper sometimes won't kill them even with a shot to the torso. The faster fire rate does not matter here, since opportunities to shoot are few and far between") to the theaters, and in which theaters it does better. Then and only then might you chalk up a +1 to the Infantry Advantage category.

[Aseaheru]

 Its also then alot easier for things that are rather... marginal differences. For instance, a tube-magazine rifle over a box magazine, or one form of intermediate cartridge over another.

 That is, unless you as a GM want to have about a score of modifiers assigned to each piece of design work based on where they are, and are willing to change those modifiers as other items are made each turn.

[FallacyofUrist]

I figured out an Arms Race I can actually run.

I can do roll to dodge style gameplay fairly easily. Coming soon: Fists Race, where the players that design magical martial arts moves also get to use them.

On another note, do you folks think an Arms Race subforum would be a good idea?

[RAM]

There are a lot of them right now, and they do tend to have many threads...
Then again, they are a bit tricky to run, I am not certain that they will be this numerous long-term.

[FallacyofUrist]

Before I run Fists Race, though, how about a system critique.

Spoiler: Please read and critique. (click to show/hide)

Fists Race is made up of two portions: a development phase consisting of design and revision phases as normal, and a combat phase where the players from either side duke it out using the moves they have.

Design and Revision are as normal.

The Combat Phase is an RTD like game where the fighting players fight using a d10 system(more flexible than a d6 system).

Players in the Combat Phase have several stats that go into the fight. Health, Stamina, and Chakra are the main stats. I'm still debating whether or not to include attributes such as Strength, Dexterity, Vitality, and whatnot that would influence the fighting and possibly provide prerequisites for using given moves.

Health is the life stat. When it's reduced to 0, the player loses.
Stamina is the non-magical energy stat. It's used to fuel non-magical moves, dodges, blocks, non-magical stances, and the like, along with magical moves because those still have a physical component. When it's reduced to 0, the player gains Exhaustion which provides a large overarching penalty, moves become less efficient, and if Stamina would be spent on something, it comes out of Health.
Chakra is the magical energy stat. It's used to fuel magical stuff like fire punches, chakra armor, werewolf transformations, and the like. It should be less than Health and Stamina and used much more sparingly. When it's reduced to 0, the player gains Exhaustion which provides a large overarching penalty, and Chakra can no longer be spent.

Moves are generally(possibly always) what designs and revisions are used on. Examples:
Fireball Fist:
Cost 3 stamina, 4/3/2/1 chakra.
Emits a fireball from your fist towards where you punch.
Chakra Armor:
Cost 2/2/1/1 chakra per turn.
While Chakra Armor is active, gain +1/+2/+3/+4 damage resistance for the first attack you're hit by each turn, subsequent impacts cumulatively receiving -1 damage resistance up to no benefit from this ability.

Costs and effects of moves are determined by one's skill level in the more overarching discipline. Skill Levels come in 4 varieties: Beginner, Adept, Elite(wish I had a better word), Master. Using moves from a given overarching skill in a fight supply EXP for that overarching skill, in the event you don't fight, you can spend time training to gain EXP at a slower rate.

Health, Stamina, and Chakra could be improved by spending EXP gained from fighting or by training as well.

[RAM]

Well, first off, it is similar to an idea I had.

King Arthur versus The Black Knight arms race.

Your proposal has much less Monty Python references. Honestly not sure how that would play out in popular opinion... I assume that dismemberment and bleeding-as-a-weapon would be uncommon?

I see the combat being either minimally interactive or rather prolonged. Given how enthusiastic people are about designing things and how few options they are likely to have at the start, I would suggest  multiple designs between fights or mid-fight(Inspiration in the heat of battle?) designs.

I do not see any replenishment options. Starting at zero would make most recovery abilities extremely strong and it isn't even clear if characters recover after fights.

Are weapons permitted? Can characters be described as "not in their true form" when first created? Is destroying the planet a valid combat manoeuvre?

[Tack]

I just made a new one. Vs NPC... technically.
Boy am I pooped though.
Let me know if I missed anything?

[NUKE9.13]

I assume you're not done yet? There's quite a lot missing at the moment.

[Tack]

I am/should be/sort of Done now.
It was all done on my phone though so I'm sure I've missed quite a bit.

[Madman198237]

When you're able, you should post the rule set you're using for designing etc. Whether that's Draig's or the simpler but less perhaps less flexible "standard" rules is up to you, though you seem to be aiming for Draig's version.