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[Kot]

We will be done once you stop using marked dice because we botch the fucking rolls all the time. Like, at this rate the war will be over in five turns because all our stuff will break apart or be impossible to produce.

[Aseaheru]

 Waiting on Zan. Who may be waiting on us to say exactly what everything we want done in our revisions of old stuff.

-edit-

 Not impossible Kot, comeon. We just never had to deal with new tech cost before, except mildly on ships, and even then we got a ship when it was new.

 Though, it does have me wondering if its just one roll for the whole thing (as I suspect) or multiple rolls, which I think was how it was done initially, though Im probably wrong.

[Taricus]

Hey, we aren't using marked dice. I mean, if we were we'd have celebrated about it by now.

You guys just need to be more... restrained in your designs.

[Aseaheru]

 Hey, we are only trying to add one new thing and two things that where already done in different forms to them. And then got rid of one of the "new" things.

 And the integral suppressor was Zan being interesting.

[Kot]

And the integral suppressor was Zan being interesting.

Yeah, we literally just needed to upsize the suppressor from the pistol, not make an totally new tech of integrated suppressors.

[Taricus]

Well, I don't think you have an AR with a threaded barrel to accept a detachable suppressor at any rate so...

[Kot]

Well, I don't think you have an AR with a threaded barrel to accept a detachable suppressor at any rate so...

Considering that you can thread a barrel at your own fucking home with basic tools I don't see how this would have been a problem.
Oh, right, okay, other than upsizing the suppressor, we would have to thread the barrel. That's arguably still less work than making integrated suppressor.

[stabbymcstabstab]

Not to mention  astly more useful, we could have slapped it on anything the same caliber with zero issues.

[Aseaheru]

Well, weapons using the same round. It probably wouldn't have worked on the sniper rifle.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Due to issues that have come up with my ability to access the forums, I no longer have the time to bea able to process the turns for Arms Race - Indonesia.  There are two options.  One, the game is sent on hiatus for the forseeable future, to be revived at a later date when my ability to access returns to its full potential.  Two, another GM is found to run the game.  Which would be preferred?

[Aseaheru]

 Waiting. Anyone who is willing to take over is probably already a player, and thus somewhat biased.

 Besides, it wouldn't feel the same.

[Taricus]

For me, either is good. Though I'd hazard that a GM must be found from outside the playerbase in order to ensure impartiality.

[Kot]

Sensei sempai, but I have no idea what is going on with him or anything, so that's proably not possible.
So whatever.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I don't mind the hiatus.... changing GMs midgame rarely works.


I am trying to do a my own version of ruleset for a topic vs topic arms race game. Note that I will not GM it, I just want to post it here for someone else using it (or I may coGM with someone who will do the setting\writing part of the game while I will be busy with rolls)

Problem #1 of each and every design game I have seen
It is nearly impossible to get a realistic composition of forces. Players just can't design everything that army may use. Lets look at early WW2 land force: Small arms (pistol, rifle, anti-tank rifle, submachinegun, machinegun), vehicles: (truck, artillery tractor, armored car, light tank, medium tank, heavy tank) Artillery: (mortar, light AA, heavy AA, anti-tank gun, light howitzer, medium howitzer, heavy howitzer), misc(landmine, grenade, radio) One of each = 21 designs without airforce, navy and various minor stuff like sniper rifles\shotguns\motorcycles\self-propelled artillery .

Solutions of this:

1) Use limited amount of designs. It works but it creates weird wars like when two island nations created no military vessel in 26 years of conflict or when grenades and landmines get "invented"  in 1930s

2) Just give players enough actions to design everything. This approach devalues actions, makes new designs boring "one of the many" and overload the GM. I think it can't work.

3) Limit design teams to some niche (airforce\navy\land vehicles\small arms) and keep other weapons in a vague background. I think this approach can work rather nicely. Yet some players may find it boring to focus in one field.

4) Declare design teams to be nothing but a part of national industry. Everything that is not designed by players exists as developed by others\procured abroad or something. The problem here is that GM either needs to design everything himself(If he tries to do that he will either go mad or abandon the game) or force players to guess what kind of local designs are their competitors and what kind of enemy designs they need to defeat in battle

Which approach do you like the most? How to counter their disadvantages? Maybe you know 5th+ way(s)?

[Aseaheru]

 Theres always allowing the ability to try importing designs, but that raises its own issues. Mostly trying to keepsome form of limits (say, by having a set of rolls for getting authorization, permission from the company/nation that makes it, availability, licensing) and then it depends on the players to even remember they can do it.

 Limiting the number of design actions has merit, but then its nearly impossible to keep limits of them that make sense, arent over or under powered, and dont swamp the GM.

 Now, combining numbers 1 and 3, to let there be pools of workers who can be set to work on a number of projects, is the worst in practice, and the best in theory, atleast mostly. However, if you want there to be any form of progression in the work force at all, the book keeping gets oppressive quickly, to the point where it becomes work, hard, aggravating work, to keep track without some form of program to help with it.


 One of the best weapon design game I have seen was a mixture of 1, 3, and 4, wherein the players represented the management of one design lab in a nation, focusing mostly on a few aspects of the military, although they quickly started trying to do everything and the other groups became mostly just story aspects. Plus, the GM then has to select everything else that gets designed, which puts a fair amount of bias on some designs.

 There was also one where each player was a corporation, making designs costed money, and then the designs had to be produced, but, well, that dident last long. A similar system, wherein the group is, say, an independent factory of some flavor, has some merit, but then its somewhat stifling and the bookkeeping, my god, the bookkeeping...