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Poll

Should Toady One Greenlight DF On Steam?

Yes
- 26 (13.4%)
No
- 145 (74.7%)
Maybe
- 23 (11.9%)

Total Members Voted: 192


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Author Topic: Should Toady One Have Dwarf Fortress Greenlighted On Steam?  (Read 9395 times)

NonverbalShoe

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Should Toady One Have Dwarf Fortress Greenlighted On Steam?
« on: February 13, 2016, 05:22:41 pm »

I think it could help a lot with increasing the DF's publicity and it would take very little time considering how many people are DF fans right now and could vote it in. It also would take very little time for him to post the updates because he could just copy and paste what he puts down here. The only serious downside is that we would have our stories of Forgotten Beasts massacring our dwarves, elf genocide, and hilarious tantrum spirals put in two separate forums which could be annoying.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 05:26:21 pm by NonverbalShoe »
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NullForceOmega

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Re: Should Toady One Have Dwarf Fortress Greenlighted On Steam?
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2016, 05:42:35 pm »

I don't have any specific dislike for the greenlight process, nor do I have a real problem with developers who use it, but I can't see Steam as a good fit for DF, it just feels far too impersonal.
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Re: Should Toady One Have Dwarf Fortress Greenlighted On Steam?
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2016, 12:17:50 am »

I like the idea of having DF on steam for me personally, it's not a good fit for steam.

You also underestimate the number of whiners there are on steam, especially for free games.
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quekwoambojish

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Re: Should Toady One Have Dwarf Fortress Greenlighted On Steam?
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2016, 01:17:09 am »

No.

I can't tell you how many Greenlight games I've purchased, and the developers give a half assed product they never finish.

Not only that, but 3/4ths of the games on there are dwarf fortress/minecraft wannabes. Chances are if you're browsing Steam Greenlight to support indie devs, you've already heard of dwarf fortress.

I understand there's no 'negative' to the things I'm saying, other than association with poor/amateur products. I just think dwarf fortress standing 'on it's own' is something to be prideful of (as a fan, and from Toadys perspective as a developer).

...I wouldn't be surprised too if Steam does something with legalities if something like this happened. Who knows, maybe dwarven childcare wouldn't be allowed anymore. That would break my heart.
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Putnam

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Re: Should Toady One Have Dwarf Fortress Greenlighted On Steam?
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2016, 02:24:24 am »

I cannot imagine what advantage this would have, to Valve or Bay 12.

Greiger

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Re: Should Toady One Have Dwarf Fortress Greenlighted On Steam?
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2016, 03:15:29 am »

Kinda gotta agree with the current poll results here.   It's easy to make a knee jerk 'no' reaction, and the current poll results might get seen as that.  But as a long time Dwarf Fortress player, AND a long time (happy) steam user I don't really see the advantage to either Steam or DF.

Steam would likely add at least some additional time overhead to a release as one downside.  I don't know the submission process but I imagine it is more complicated than just uploading the zip to your own server. I'm also skeptical steam would host something like this for free.  Don't get me wrong, I like steam, but they are a business, and businesses need to make money. Hosting a DF download pro bono would not benefit them in any way I can imagine.  And if steam or Bay12 charged enough to just cover the overhead through the steam system, I imagine the smart folks would just come here for the download.

I also don't really think the forum itself would be ready for the possible influx of people.  I don't doubt that it will add to the game's popularity if it happened, but right now the forums are moderated by Toady and Threetoe alone (at least outside of LCS, and the currently missing kobold god anyway).  Steam could double or triple the forum moderation workload easily, and from what I understand the Adams' already spend more time moderating than they would like. 

Additional moderators have come up in threads before, and while I don't recall if either of the brothers commented on it, general forum consensus seems to indicate it would be a bad idea.

Maybe in the future, but as things stand now, I vote no for steam.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 03:20:09 am by Greiger »
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Re: Should Toady One Have Dwarf Fortress Greenlighted On Steam?
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2016, 10:48:17 am »

From the other side of things, Steam Greenlight is properly used for new developers trying to get their foot in the door and an audience for their games. Toady is a professional game developer with a hardcore audience. It'd be kind of a dick move to all the new indie devs who need Greenlight, to plonk down one of the best games of all time in their space just because it isn't associated with a major studio.
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BlackSmokeDMax

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Re: Should Toady One Have Dwarf Fortress Greenlighted On Steam?
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2016, 11:29:25 am »

There is no way in the world the Steam masses would be ready for a game in this state. Sure there are plenty of particular people on Steam who would be a perfect fit for DF, but the downside of dealing with the masses far outweighs that.
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4kn

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Re: Should Toady One Have Dwarf Fortress Greenlighted On Steam?
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2016, 06:38:21 pm »

not until df goes multithread and 64x, i think
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Somebodyelse

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Re: Should Toady One Have Dwarf Fortress Greenlighted On Steam?
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2016, 09:36:24 pm »

I don't like greenlight strictly because it encourages lazy game development.

Before, indie game designers had to make a game with high quality and novel concepts to get noticed as it was with games like minecraft, cave story, la-mulana and i wanna be the guy. Greenlight takes away that "sink or swim" adversity that forced them to put effort into their works and streamlines a easy way to put games out to the public.

It's a matter of convenience taking precedent over effort.
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Putnam

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Re: Should Toady One Have Dwarf Fortress Greenlighted On Steam?
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2016, 09:48:50 pm »

That's not really a bad thing... Valve's definitely put good effort into letting you know when a game's shite.

Urist_McArathos

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Re: Should Toady One Have Dwarf Fortress Greenlighted On Steam?
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2016, 01:35:42 am »

I just don't think it's the right platform for DF.

This game is going to be in "alpha" for at least another two decades at this rate, and it's definitely more of a collaborative art project between creator and audience than a "normal" video game at this point.  I don't think there's anything to be gained in terms of audience, revenue, development perks, or anything else by going with Steam.
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madpraxis

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Re: Should Toady One Have Dwarf Fortress Greenlighted On Steam?
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2016, 02:03:27 am »

Gah, DF and Steam. I vote No in so many different ways. I can see how some consider Steam a 'good' thing, but from what I've seen it promotes cheap ass copying of games in an attempt to grab a few bucks, which leads to hordes of crap games with a few select titles that are actually good. This leads to the rampant horde of Steam users who hop from game to game as fast as they can whip a wallet out. Which, honestly, isn't that bad (for the copy/paste game makers, horrible for the game industry), except it also leads to a veritable poop storm of dumbass 'comments', ill-informed and completely useless suggestions, and general whinging.
I say No. Because the last thing Toad needs is to wade through piles and piles of comments and suggestions that have no bearing on anything useful, 'suggestions' that have no bearing on anything happening outside of some misinformed/ill-educated user's mind, and a general avoidance of the surge of users that play for an hour then post for 3 weeks about how horrible everything is and clogging up the forums.

tl;dr
  No, to keep our 'elitist' community (as in, people who stick around to enjoy and promote the game development) and to avoid the horde of useless Steam whingers.

edit: I should point out that ToME had the same thing happen. Hordes and hordes of stupid. It took a while for things to settle down (and it still gets hit by minor waves) after it went Steam, but, much like DF would be, it's helped by the fact that it isn't a clone of a popular game (and has 'crap' graphics, much like DF! :D ). So, we'd avoid the majority of it, but still have to deal with it...
« Last Edit: February 15, 2016, 02:12:35 am by madpraxis »
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NonverbalShoe

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Re: Should Toady One Have Dwarf Fortress Greenlighted On Steam?
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2016, 02:28:07 pm »

I use a texture pack and I may have entirely forgot the base game uses ASCII graphics, so now I see everyone's point...
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Mathalor

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Re: Should Toady One Have Dwarf Fortress Greenlighted On Steam?
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2016, 07:31:01 pm »

What is ToME?  My websearch has failed me.
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