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[AbstractTraitorHero]

What is the timezone for most players here?
I should be getting out of school early because of early dismissal at like 12:00pm ish Pacific Northwest time and I'd like to know so I can schedule a time where'd they'd be online.

[hector13]

You don't need to be on when they are, just ask good questions of them.

[AbstractTraitorHero]

Isn't what a good question looks like extremely subjective?

[hector13]

To an extent. A good question generates content that can be analysed by yourself and the other players. Anything that can solidify your read on another player is good content, so... a good question gets that.

[Silthuri]

I am alive! Post coming later today. Promise.

[Silthuri]

hector13

Silthuri

Thoughts on yesterday?

I'm not a big player D1 in general. i'm not a fan of RVS. Yesterday appeared to be filled with weak attempts to attack people, which is the usual. It may hold more significance later, but for now, I myself don't find anything extremely useful there yet.

Who do you think is town? Why do you think this?

I'm fairly cool with webadict. But I don't think I've ever actually played a game with 'em. Everyone aside from them and those mentioned in my answer below are pretty much neutral.

Who do you think is scum? Why do you think this?

Hmm... Going off of RVS, I'd have to say EP? I dunno. EP jumped around a lot, which isn't a scummy action in and of itself and somethin's just off about 'em. I'd feel kinda bad if I didn't name someone here, but take my suspicion with a grain of salt. I've been playing way too much Town of Salem lately and my mafia instincts are way off as of late.

Not much activity people must be quite busy?

I dunno about everyone else, but I've had quite a bit of stuffs going on. And today, I've got tryouts for the mock trial team so... O.O
A more thorough reading and post coming after mock trial things are done for the day.

[webadict]

Unsurprising that you're defending ATH, meng.

Vote me then, nerd. I want you to explain why it's bad that I'm defending him. If you think someone's Town, do you want them lynched instead?

Hector13 congratulations you passed! What I just did was a gamble that was based on looking at the people I least suspected and then seeing what happens when I put a stupid amount of pressure on them via shouting insane troll logic I mean everything I said was basically complete and utter nonsense and insanity becuase you said basically none of the things i implied or said you said.Your only thing i could fault you honestly on is the pointed questions bit I do actually believe your questions need to be a little bit more penetrating though and as for know you've convinced me that my town lean for you is probably correct and as such Unvote.

Alright, let me stop you there.

That's stupid. He had one vote on him. That's not pressure. That's like... nothing. Come on. We JUST went through this yesterday with snow dwarf. One vote is not pressure. Your argument was hardly insane troll logic. None of that makes sense.

Your whole argument is stupid. Explain how that's supposed to work. No, for real, that doesn't work. All it does is confuse town players and never really works on scum players who basically laugh it off. Now you've successfully made yourself look suspicious. I'm not sure if this is even IC stuff or not, because it's both important and game-related, but the only thing I can say is that this style is heavily confusing and never works well.

To me, it seems you heavily overstepped your bounds and took a step back, which is incredibly scummy in most games. Consider not doing it again.

And might as well Extend, since I doubt anything useful will be said by then.

[doomchild]

I'm still here, I'm just sick.  Extend.  I'm doing my best to read through everything in between hacking into a tissue.

[hector13]

Unsurprising that you're defending ATH, meng.

Vote me then, nerd. I want you to explain why it's bad that I'm defending him. If you think someone's Town, do you want them lynched instead?

You don't know he's town, though, do you? You were right on the nail with thinking snow dwarf was scum yesterday, after all.

Indeed, your first read of the game was snow dwarf is scum. Second read was ATH is town.

You admitted your reads on them stemmed from "feelings", which we know aren't very accurate after dat flip m9.

There's no qualitative difference between snow dwarf's and ATH's posts, so I struggle to see how you can feel they're both different alignments.

ATH just wasted a page (at default PPP) arguing with me and then saying at the end "nahnahnah, sorry pal, ignore all that I was just being mental." which is a lot scummier than anything snow dwarf did yesterday, yet you're still sure he's town. 'scuse me for finding that a wee bit suspicious.

[Gentlefish]

Day 2 has been extended.

Silthuri has been warned. If she does not post in the next 24 hours, she will be replaced.

Day 2 ends 4/15/16 at 23:59:59 in 3 days.

Already got an extension. Are we going for another one? Sorry for such little OC^TM. Studying for a doozy of an algorithms test.

[doomchild]

Here's a list of whom voted for snow dwarf, in order so far as I can tell:
Gentlefish, webadict, AbstractTraitorHero, doomchild, Persus13

Time to hunt for the bandwagoniers!

DoomChild:
You've had reasoned suspicions for snow, and voted him when he offered the idea that maybe he -was- mafia. Your vote -seems- right, but if I take a page out of Hector's book () that does make me feel a little uncomfortable. Do you think it's likely that someone whom voted for snow dwarf is mafia? How do you plan on rooting them out?

First off, I think calling all of the votes on snow dwarf a bandwagon is an indirect attack.  Some people might have been bandwagoning, but people choosing independently to vote for the same target is not a bandwagon.  A part of why I took a while to finally put my vote down was because I knew that I would get accused of hopping on the bandwagon, when in fact I had legitimate suspicions.

Secondly, this whole "that seems right, and therefore it must be scummy" thing has me really confused.  So, I'm being attacked for following up on what I and others perceive as scummy behavior?  That mindset seems to imply that townies should play their cards close to the vest, which I think is a big mistake.  The mafia has the advantage when nobody acts openly, because suspicion brews fast and hot in that kind of environment.

Finally, coming from a purely statistical point of view, it seems reasonably likely to me that at least one scum was in the list of snow dwarf voters.  We know Persus13 was town, so that leaves the other 4.  I feel like I've been completely open and honest about why I was suspicious of snow dwarf, and I think the only way to make any headway on finding out if there is a scum in the list is for everybody else to do the same.

[webadict]

Unsurprising that you're defending ATH, meng.

Vote me then, nerd. I want you to explain why it's bad that I'm defending him. If you think someone's Town, do you want them lynched instead?

You don't know he's town, though, do you? You were right on the nail with thinking snow dwarf was scum yesterday, after all.

Indeed, your first read of the game was snow dwarf is scum. Second read was ATH is town.

You admitted your reads on them stemmed from "feelings", which we know aren't very accurate after dat flip m9.

There's no qualitative difference between snow dwarf's and ATH's posts, so I struggle to see how you can feel they're both different alignments.

ATH just wasted a page (at default PPP) arguing with me and then saying at the end "nahnahnah, sorry pal, ignore all that I was just being mental." which is a lot scummier than anything snow dwarf did yesterday, yet you're still sure he's town. 'scuse me for finding that a wee bit suspicious.

You're right, I don't know he's Town, but I'm way more sure he's town than you are, so if you're planning to vote and lynch him, you better believe I'm not going to screw around and let you do it. I'm not upset over being wrong on snow child. I figured it was a distinct possibility. What he did would've warranted the same response in a normal game. I fail to see the issue. Are you going to use that against me? Any more passive attacks you want to make before you get them all out? I'll make 'em for you: You haven't posted anything relevant since the Day started; you're experienced yet you lynched a townie; you're buddying with ATH; you're chainsaw defending ATH; you're not scumhunting; you're not creating a useful environment for new players to learn. Am I missing any? Are you gonna vote me yet? What are you waiting for? I don't understand how I'm less suspicious than ATH at this point, right? Here, I'll help you out.

hector13.

hector13 hector13 hector13 hector13 hector13 hector13 hector13 hector13 hector13 hector13 hector13 hector13.

Yeah, now what? You gonna vote me yet? Or were you just waiting for this, so that you could claim OMGUS without having to actually, you know, vote me. I can believe it, but the issue is that if you want ammo against me, it's typically better if you use it before I do. You don't have to like it, but it's true. I'm not lying because I don't have to lie. There's nothing for me to lie about.

Does that make me your enemy?

Look, my goal is two things: To teach people how to play (in the sick, twisted way that I do), and to win. I don't expect you to play like I do. In fact, I suggest against it. But, if you think ATH is scum, then I will vote you. I will vote you because I believe you're wrong on purpose. You're using snow dwarf against me, when it was very clearly a viable lynch. You're making a number of passive attacks against me, but you're refusing to vote me. You're not even FoSing me. It's uncanny how you're avoiding a direct assault.

I want you to think very clearly about your statistics: 1 in 4 of those players are scum according to you. If that's true, then what about the people that didn't vote snow dwarf? Are they 1 in 3? In fact, the chance for anyone to be scum is 2 in 8, correct?

But that's not true.

The chance for anyone to be scum is 2 in 7. You always assume you're town. So, if you believe that one person in that list is scum, then what are the chances that scum avoided a bandwagon on Town? I find it more likely to avoid trying to lynch a Townie: The essence of the Trying Too Hard To Look Town scumtell. And you know, it usually IS a nulltell, but for beginners, it has outstanding merit. So, it's actually more likely that one of the three people who DIDN'T vote snow dwarf is scum.

... You didn't vote snow dwarf, did you?

Why not?

Yeah, that's right. I'm asking why you DIDN'T vote a town player. Why did you believe he wasn't scum? It seems odd, really. He made a scummy series of plays. His behavior was suspicious. And yet, you didn't vote him, right?

Why not?

[doomchild]

The chance for anyone to be scum is 2 in 7. You always assume you're town. So, if you believe that one person in that list is scum, then what are the chances that scum avoided a bandwagon on Town? I find it more likely to avoid trying to lynch a Townie: The essence of the Trying Too Hard To Look Town scumtell. And you know, it usually IS a nulltell, but for beginners, it has outstanding merit. So, it's actually more likely that one of the three people who DIDN'T vote snow dwarf is scum.

Woah.  I never would have thought about that.  Maybe I shouldn't discount this whole 's/([scum|null])tell//' thing.  So far, I've mostly assumed that it's just some cargo-cult of knowledge that doesn't have a lot of actual grounding in reality, but I'm wondering if I haven't discarded a useful tool prematurely.  What's a good place to go to read up on some of this?

[webadict]

The chance for anyone to be scum is 2 in 7. You always assume you're town. So, if you believe that one person in that list is scum, then what are the chances that scum avoided a bandwagon on Town? I find it more likely to avoid trying to lynch a Townie: The essence of the Trying Too Hard To Look Town scumtell. And you know, it usually IS a nulltell, but for beginners, it has outstanding merit. So, it's actually more likely that one of the three people who DIDN'T vote snow dwarf is scum.

Woah.  I never would have thought about that.  Maybe I shouldn't discount this whole 's/([scum|null])tell//' thing.  So far, I've mostly assumed that it's just some cargo-cult of knowledge that doesn't have a lot of actual grounding in reality, but I'm wondering if I haven't discarded a useful tool prematurely.  What's a good place to go to read up on some of this?

IC:
Well, take it with a grain of salt. The more experience a person has, the less some scumtells apply... And the more others do! It's weird, really. Typically, they're more used to back up a more solid argument. In this case, I would never use it as the crux of my argument, but I can use it as supporting evidence. The reason to be suspicious is that I could have spotted it and used it against the person even if they're town! That's why it's bad to use as a complete case.

It's a great tool, but it's not an all-or-nothing deal. Some people have their own tells that aren't listed! Some people are very predictable! It's like poker. Can you read what your opponent is holding?

On Day 1, though, there's not a lot to go on, so you ARE free to use what little you can get.

[doomchild]

Hmmm.  Okay, that makes sense.  I'll have to do some more reading on Mafiascum.