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Author Topic: Vengeful Mafia 11: its over town won  (Read 42946 times)

origamiscienceguy

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 11: Day 2 - Not Day 1! [3/5]
« Reply #315 on: March 15, 2016, 11:18:11 am »

But if I was to vote for you instead of roo, that would make him even more certain that you were scum, and even more likely to vengekill you. Which would give me the win if I was scum with roo (which I'm not)

However, your response to his threat does actually make you seem like scum. The scum would be more afraid of a vengekill than a townie because the scum KNOW that he has a vengekill, while a townie wouldn't know if he had a vengekill or not, making him more certain. You hesitance could be seen as caution, but because you were afrraid of his vengekill to that level makes me think you are scum.
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Reverie

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 11: Day 2 - Not Day 1! [3/5]
« Reply #316 on: March 15, 2016, 11:47:42 am »

Really? That logic only works in setups where D1 isn't so precarious. If I was vengekilled, town would have lost. We went over this yesterday:

Revarie, are you confident enough that TempAcc is scum that even if he said he is going to vengekill you, you would still vote him?
That's a complicated matter I've been turning over in my head, and I'm glad you brought it up.

The short answer is no, I'm not. If this were any larger setup, with more players and breathing room for a potential mislynch on D1, it would be different. I'd call his bluff and that would be that. This game, though, is like starting on MYLO (it may as well be with the vengekill abilities), and doing that blind. Ordinarily I wouldn't care about dying if it meant having a shot to kill scum, but in this case, the whole game is on the line. TempAcc did mention that he was looking at other vengekill candidates, but while that sounds nice I can't discount that this might be misdirection—especially since he seems to latch onto the notion that I'm scum so dearly.

It all comes down to two outcomes. Do I call the bluff and hope the three of us voting TempAcc are right? Or do we drag this out for long enough to get comprehensive reads on everyone? I introduced the faux-vote system precisely so we can remove any time constraints, and naturally I'd choose the latter if it were up to me. Town's best odds are with taking its time.

...and you agreed with me. You completely understood how precarious this was. How did this suddenly become scummy to you?
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origamiscienceguy

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 11: Day 2 - Not Day 1! [3/5]
« Reply #317 on: March 15, 2016, 02:27:04 pm »

okay, that makes sense. Nevermind. But do you still think that everything I did day 1 was a ploy to get you all to think of me as townie day 2? Rather than just win?
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Reverie

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 11: Day 2 - Not Day 1! [3/5]
« Reply #318 on: March 16, 2016, 09:26:43 am »

We've come full circle.

I've spent maybe an hour trying to come up with something new to say concerning my vote on you OSG, but I'm not having any luck. It all comes down to your waffling and D2 opener vs. Elephant Parade falling in step behind me for most of the game. Both in attacking TempAcc and in attacking you.

Let's try this:

Elephant Parade:
Today you've fallen in lockstep behind me just like you have yesterday. Relative to OSG, you're in my blindspot; I haven't really seen any argument from you that could be considered just yours rather than supplementing mine. Are you soaking up my arguments because you're absolutely certain I'm town for introducing faux-votes? Please give me a reason to think you're not hiding in plain sight.
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Elephant Parade

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 11: Day 2 - Not Day 1! [3/5]
« Reply #319 on: March 16, 2016, 07:14:12 pm »

Quote
Today you've fallen in lockstep behind me just like you have yesterday. Relative to OSG, you're in my blindspot; I haven't really seen any argument from you that could be considered just yours rather than supplementing mine. Are you soaking up my arguments because you're absolutely certain I'm town for introducing faux-votes? Please give me a reason to think you're not hiding in plain sight.
I'm almost certain you're town, both because you introduced faux-votes and because you've been active and productive throughout the entire game. OSG, on the other hand, didn't do anything useful D1 other than tunnel Roo; his defence of TempAcc relied on the assumption that he was town. The TempAcc defence and Roo tunnel were the only two big things he did. Furthermore, he's spent all of D2 on the defensive; I found no attacks against me, and only one against you. This attack basically boils down to your refusal to change your vote from TempAcc, which is ridiculous; the only real defence for TempAcc was OSG's useless one. He also hasn't bugged me at all (I think?) for voting TempAcc, even though I, too, never changed my faux-vote from him after the faux-lynch. That's kind of inconsistent.

(Note that I may very well have overlooked a post in which he attacked someone, as I am currently half-asleep. Seriously, this is probably worth double-checking.)

As for me being in "lockstep" behind you: I think you're exaggerating a bit, but there are two factors that I think contribute to that; the first is that I generally get home after you and OSG talk for a while, and the second is that I'm playing pretty lazily at this point. I'll try to come up with some more original arguments.

Here's one theory, for a start: OSG, being scum, has not been able to find any arguments against either of us, and has thus stayed on the defensive, hoping to stall while he looks for an argument or pounce on some sort of minor slip-up. This is supported by his general defensiveness throughout D2, but countered by the fact that he was actually the first to suggest an early final vote. I'm going to go over D2 and maybe D1 in regards to this to confirm or deny the veracity of this argument I got no sleep last night and I'm feeling pretty disinclined to figure out how to phrase this; you get what I mean.

OSG: No, seriously, why haven't you been more attack-y? the phrasing is awful but the question is hopefully decent
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origamiscienceguy

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 11: Day 2 - Not Day 1! [3/5]
« Reply #320 on: March 16, 2016, 07:44:40 pm »

I've been on the defensive because I had two votes against me. I still feel the need to defend myself because Revarie's Faux-vote on you was just for a change in pace. I am pretty confident that he will change it back to me in a little bit. I also haven't been attacking because honestly, you two have been playing very cautionsly, which is very hard to read. As I said earlier, Elephantparade is neutral to me, because everything you do could be good for scum or town, and you have played the most cautiously, while Revarie has been a bit more attacking on people, and she was the main leader on the lynch of Tempacc. Not to mention, she almost immediately went after me day 2. And you have been content to follow her.

I really can't put my suspicion of Revarie into concise words, but I'll try my best: She went after TempAcc day one, and everybody followed her (except for me because of unrelated reasons I am sure you know of.) Day 2, she immediately goes after me, and you follow. She has basically been controlling the game this entire time. Yet she plays very well as a cautious townie with the faux-vote system and good persuasive arguments (even if they aren't correct). Her arguments so far have been wrong. Tempacc was Town. But the sudden turnaround on me even though I tried to defend tempacc and vote for roo (the Godfather) with her reasoning that it was all a ploy to get an easy day 2. At one point, she even said something like "I know this is your plan, and it won't work." With such certainty even though the evidence points against it. It seems like she is just having convincing aguments to win over the remaining town members even though she is really having her own agenda.

I'm really bad at putting my thoughts into words. I hope you understood that.
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Reverie

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 11: Day 2 - Not Day 1! [3/5]
« Reply #321 on: March 16, 2016, 08:52:55 pm »

Finally, some substance.

I'll first make it clear that my last post had two purposes: to get both of you talking and to possibly ensnare OSG. I was half-expecting him to jump on Elephant Parade at the first sign of me backing off (a clear sign he'll jump to kill anyone to save himself as scum would), but he defused that right away.

Elephant Parade:
As for me being in "lockstep" behind you: I think you're exaggerating a bit, but there are two factors that I think contribute to that; the first is that I generally get home after you and OSG talk for a while, and the second is that I'm playing pretty lazily at this point. I'll try to come up with some more original arguments.
I was being a bit dramatic. Maybe even more than I intended, because I arranged the first letters in my questions to you to begin with T-R-A-P for Reverie-is-being-weird insurance in case hanging out on a limb to suddenly press you and trap OSG all at once did backfire. Anyways, your answer feels transparent and I do buy the timezone shenanigans argument. It's hard for us to chat directly in this game (it's 2:30AM here!), but try not to be lazy if you can for future reference, it's spooky to just be agreed with.

origamiscienceguy:
I've been on the defensive because I had two votes against me. I still feel the need to defend myself because Revarie's Faux-vote on you was just for a change in pace. I am pretty confident that he will change it back to me in a little bit.
First of all, no fun. I was hoping to wrap this up cleverly with a neat little bow and a whirlwind win for town after that disaster of a D1.
Secondly, there is nothing stopping you from making an argument if you have one. If you haven't noticed, we have all the time we could ever want and it literally makes no difference if you have two fake votes on you if you have any vestige of an argument to make. That's the thing with being town and also under attack. You're more useful playing productively and not being completely turtle-y. TempAcc could have used this advice. I'd very much have welcomed an actual argument out of him against me (that wasn't the vague statement that I was playing into his theories). It beats folding. Unless you're scum.

I really can't put my suspicion of Revarie into concise words, but I'll try my best: She went after TempAcc day one, and everybody followed her (except for me because of unrelated reasons I am sure you know of.) Day 2, she immediately goes after me, and you follow. She has basically been controlling the game this entire time.
You're right, and that scares the shit out of me. I've never been the most active/aggressive player in a game before, and certainly not agreed with by a majority (even if there are just five of us), but to put things into perspective, that's just roo and Elephant Parade we're talking about. And one is dead, confirmed scum. I don't think that is quite as bad as it sounds, but that brings us to...

Her arguments so far have been wrong.
Surprise! I'm only human. I've been in enough mafia games to know that D1 is always a mess. This is like 50% of what made me nervous yesterday. The balance for this setup looks so stacked against town simply because we have nil to go on at the start. And the start is like 90% of the game.

At one point, she even said something like "I know this is your plan, and it won't work."
You paraphrase that more cut and dry than it actually was, but I was trying to intimidate you here. You'd be silly if you thought that I knew this for sure.

Anyways, I do think you're scum, and enough so to lock in and finish the game barring drastic stuff. It's not over until you guys say it is though, so we'll keep going until we're all ready.


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origamiscienceguy

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 11: Day 2 - Not Day 1! [3/5]
« Reply #322 on: March 16, 2016, 09:22:37 pm »

I am just too bad at words.
I was half-expecting him to jump on Elephant Parade at the first sign of me backing off (a clear sign he'll jump to kill anyone to save himself as scum would), but he defused that right away.
Yeah, because I'm not scum  :P

First of all, no fun. I was hoping to wrap this up cleverly with a neat little bow and a whirlwind win for town after that disaster of a D1.
Secondly, there is nothing stopping you from making an argument if you have one. If you haven't noticed, we have all the time we could ever want and it literally makes no difference if you have two fake votes on you if you have any vestige of an argument to make. That's the thing with being town and also under attack. You're more useful playing productively and not being completely turtle-y. TempAcc could have used this advice. I'd very much have welcomed an actual argument out of him against me (that wasn't the vague statement that I was playing into his theories). It beats folding. Unless you're scum.
I literally tried my best to say my argument against you later in the post. I just am not very good at explainng them, although I am happy you understood it, at least, but you don't matter since you're never going to vote for yourself :P
I really can't put my suspicion of Revarie into concise words, but I'll try my best: She went after TempAcc day one, and everybody followed her (except for me because of unrelated reasons I am sure you know of.) Day 2, she immediately goes after me, and you follow. She has basically been controlling the game this entire time.
You're right, and that scares the shit out of me. I've never been the most active/aggressive player in a game before, and certainly not agreed with by a majority (even if there are just five of us), but to put things into perspective, that's just roo and Elephant Parade we're talking about. And one is dead, confirmed scum.
Well, you have been on a long mafia hiatus if I recall, I suppose you've changed after all this time. I know I have after just one year.

I know you can't be expected to be right about everything, but that was not the point I was trying to make. I meant to say that everything you did didn't seem to coincide with a town agenda. Getting Tempacc killed, immediately going after me. And those were not townie things to do... ugh. I really don't know how to say what I'm thinking. I probably look stupid.  :P


BTW, I just got a scholarship to my second-choice university. So that's why I'm happy all of  sudden.
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Reverie

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 11: Day 2 - Not Day 1! [3/5]
« Reply #323 on: March 16, 2016, 09:24:48 pm »

Wow, congrats! :-)
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TheBiggerFish

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 11: Day 2 - Not Day 1! [3/5]
« Reply #324 on: March 16, 2016, 09:27:55 pm »

I just got a scholarship to my second-choice university. So that's why I'm happy all of  sudden.
((*bamfs in*

Grats OSG!

*bamfs away*))
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origamiscienceguy

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 11: Day 2 - Not Day 1! [3/5]
« Reply #325 on: March 16, 2016, 09:31:02 pm »

Why are you here??
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TheBiggerFish

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 11: Day 2 - Not Day 1! [3/5]
« Reply #326 on: March 16, 2016, 09:33:01 pm »

((Because I've been watching this game?  Now stop talking to me and get on with whatever.))
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origamiscienceguy

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 11: Day 2 - Not Day 1! [3/5]
« Reply #327 on: March 16, 2016, 09:36:52 pm »

Who the heck would want to watch this game???
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hector13

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 11: Day 2 - Not Day 1! [3/5]
« Reply #328 on: March 16, 2016, 09:40:25 pm »

Who the heck would want to watch this game???

((you'd be surprised :P))
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Jack A T

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Re: Vengeful Mafia 11: Day 2 - Not Day 1! [3/5]
« Reply #329 on: March 16, 2016, 11:12:32 pm »

BTW, I just got a scholarship to my second-choice university. So that's why I'm happy all of  sudden.
OSG: Congrats!
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