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Author Topic: Quiet-Sun's Standard and Tools: Updater, Standardizer, Merger, and Resizer  (Read 18771 times)

CLA

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Re: Quiet-Sun's Standard and Tools: Updater, Standardizer, Merger, and Resizer
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2016, 05:40:31 am »
Quote from: jecowa on June 15, 2016, 06:57:42 pm
Quote from: CLA on June 15, 2016, 02:25:45 pm
Let me know if you find any mistakes!

I doesn't look like there's a template for the Ant_man. I think it should go into the person-subterranean file.
You'll find it in creature_subterranean. Same file where it's located in raw/objects.
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jecowa

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Re: Quiet-Sun's Standard and Tools: Updater, Standardizer, Merger, and Resizer
« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2016, 08:36:39 am »
Quote from: CLA on June 16, 2016, 05:40:31 am
You'll find it in creature_subterranean. Same file where it's located in raw/objects.

Thanks for the help. I'm not sure why I didn't see it before.
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jecowa

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Re: Quiet-Sun's Standard and Tools: Updater, Standardizer, Merger, and Resizer
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2016, 09:24:27 pm »
I'm guessing those animal people can't join your fortress, and that's why they are organized differently and don't have places to indicate profession tiles for them.
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CLA

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Re: Quiet-Sun's Standard and Tools: Updater, Standardizer, Merger, and Resizer
« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2016, 05:03:42 am »
Not sure if they can join your fortress, but they're definitely a different category from normal animal men:

http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Civilization#Underground_Civilizations
« Last Edit: June 17, 2016, 05:10:08 am by CLA »
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jecowa

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Re: Quiet-Sun's Standard and Tools: Updater, Standardizer, Merger, and Resizer
« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2016, 02:23:47 pm »
The Quiet-Sun Standard has tiles designated for "TRAINED_HUNTER" and "TRAINED_WAR" variants of AMPHIBIAN_MAN, REPTILE_MAN, SERPENT_MAN, ANT_MAN, and RODENT MAN. But these creatures are not tameable, so I would guess that they can't be trained as war or hunting animals.

Unless there's something preventing these animal people from joining a civilization and taking a job, it seems like their templates should have tiles designated for all the jobs and such that the other animal people's templates do.
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jecowa

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Re: Quiet-Sun's Standard and Tools: Updater, Standardizer, Merger, and Resizer
« Reply #35 on: June 18, 2016, 09:12:21 pm »
Just thought I'd report some things I noticed.

Mayday has ghost and animated versions of all the weapon users defined that aren't in the Quiet Sun Standard.
Code: [Select]
   [WRESTLER:DORFS:1:14:AS_IS:ANIMATED]
   [WRESTLER:DORFS:1:14:AS_IS:GHOST]
Mayday and the standard seem to use different names for the same thing:

Quiet Sun definitionsMayday definitions
CAPTAIN_OF_THE_LAW_ENFORCECAPTAIN_OF_THE_GUARD
HAMMEREREXECUTIONER
undefinedDUNGEONMASTER
undefinedARSENAL_DWARF
undefinedTAXCOLLECTOR

I'm not sure how many of those definitions are valid, though. It looks like the arsenal dwarf and tax collector are not currently in the game, but neither are the tax collector variants of the military dwarves.

Here's the modified version of the standard that I'm using:
Spoiler: "graphics_QS_ST_MJR_goblin_standard.txt" (click to show/hide)

Thanks again for making this standard temple. It's saving me lots of time.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2016, 12:49:39 am by jecowa »
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Rydel

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Re: Quiet-Sun's Standard and Tools: Updater, Standardizer, Merger, and Resizer
« Reply #36 on: June 18, 2016, 09:26:45 pm »
Some of those are defunct roles.  Phoebus has a lot of them, and Rally Ho has some too, since it's based off Phoebus.
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CLA

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Re: Quiet-Sun's Standard and Tools: Updater, Standardizer, Merger, and Resizer
« Reply #37 on: June 19, 2016, 03:30:58 am »
Quote from: jecowa on June 18, 2016, 09:12:21 pm
Just thought I'd report some things I noticed [from Mayday].
Mayday is pretty old by now and a few things have changed that never have been fixed in the graphic set, apparently.
Quote from: jecowa on June 18, 2016, 09:12:21 pm
Mayday has ghost and animated versions of all the weapon users defined that aren't in the Quiet Sun Standard.
Code: [Select]
   [WRESTLER:DORFS:1:14:AS_IS:ANIMATED]
   [WRESTLER:DORFS:1:14:AS_IS:GHOST]
See:
Quote from: http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Graphic_set#Texture_Tokens
Note that the Tokens GHOST and ANIMATED go in the profession spot, not the texture token as you would expect
Try it out in the arena, I'm pretty sure they don't work.

Quote from: jecowa on June 18, 2016, 09:12:21 pm
Mayday and the standard seem to use different names for the same thing:

Quiet Sun definitionsMayday definitions
CAPTAIN_OF_THE_LAW_ENFORCECAPTAIN_OF_THE_GUARD
HAMMEREREXECUTIONER
undefinedDUNGEONMASTER
undefinedARSENAL_DWARF
undefinedTAXCOLLECTOR

I'm not sure how many of those definitions are valid, though. It looks like the arsenal dwarf and tax collector are not currently in the game, but neither are the tax collector variants of the military dwarves.
As Rydel mentioned, they're not used anymore. It doesn't hurt to have them in, but for a maintained standardizer tool, it makes sense to leave them out.

IIRC the df graphics repo thread had a discussion about this somewhere.
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burned

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Re: Quiet-Sun's Standard and Tools: Updater, Standardizer, Merger, and Resizer
« Reply #38 on: June 19, 2016, 02:54:34 pm »
Quote from: CLA on June 19, 2016, 03:30:58 am
IIRC the df graphics repo thread had a discussion about this somewhere.

You might be thinking of an older discussion. ;]

*~

Quote from: jecowa on June 18, 2016, 09:12:21 pm
Quiet Sun definitionsMayday definitions
CAPTAIN_OF_THE_LAW_ENFORCECAPTAIN_OF_THE_GUARD
HAMMEREREXECUTIONER
undefinedDUNGEONMASTER
undefinedARSENAL_DWARF
undefinedTAXCOLLECTOR

I'm not sure how many of those definitions are valid, though. It looks like the arsenal dwarf and tax collector are not currently in the game, but neither are the tax collector variants of the military dwarves.

CAPTAIN_OF_THE_LAW_ENFORCE was never a thing. Quiet-Sun originally had "GUARD" and "ROYALGUARD" as (invalid) textures. It looks like he accidentally scrambled the "CAPTAIN_OF_THE_GUARD" profession with the "LAW_ENFORCE" texture when he was correcting the invalid textures. Most likely a find/replace error, since one of the corrections was "GUARD" to "LAW_ENFORCE."

It's worth noting that Quiet-Sun's tool uses the raws to validate only the creatures (as defined by the standard in the OP). The professions are validated via a text file you're expected to keep up to date.

Quote from: jecowa on June 17, 2016, 02:23:47 pm
The Quiet-Sun Standard has tiles designated for "TRAINED_HUNTER" and "TRAINED_WAR" variants of AMPHIBIAN_MAN, REPTILE_MAN, SERPENT_MAN, ANT_MAN, and RODENT MAN. But these creatures are not tameable, so I would guess that they can't be trained as war or hunting animals.

Unless there's something preventing these animal people from joining a civilization and taking a job, it seems like their templates should have tiles designated for all the jobs and such that the other animal people's templates do.


You can't have a trained war mountain gnome either, but this happens because these creature definitions don't have LOCAL_POPS tags. Regarding the creatures you mentioned, this is mainly a byproduct of 40d tribal animal people versus post animal drive animal people definitions.

Quiet-Sun's standard was designed to be flexible and less rigid in order to automate anything at all. If it helps, just add a parenthetical after "non-sentient" that reads "everything not included in the first two definitions."
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jecowa

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Re: Quiet-Sun's Standard and Tools: Updater, Standardizer, Merger, and Resizer
« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2016, 05:13:09 am »
Thanks for helping me understand all of this. I really appreciate it. I'll probably put the unused professions in a corner somewhere in case they are ever needed again and keep them easy-to-find for future graphics pack maintainers.
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jecowa

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Re: Quiet-Sun's Standard and Tools: Updater, Standardizer, Merger, and Resizer
« Reply #40 on: June 20, 2016, 01:12:47 pm »
Another one: "graphics_QS_ST_PRSN_temperate_new.txt" is missing OPOSSUM_MAN. It has every temperate animal person except for that one. I'm putting him in column 10 after COATI_MAN.
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CLA

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Re: Quiet-Sun's Standard and Tools: Updater, Standardizer, Merger, and Resizer
« Reply #41 on: June 20, 2016, 04:29:41 pm »
I can verify that it's missing. I opened a bug report on QS' github. Feel free to add any additional information you find.

EDIT: Also thank you jecowa for going through all of this and documenting all the problems you find. This is very useful.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 05:03:18 pm by CLA »
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jecowa

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Re: Quiet-Sun's Standard and Tools: Updater, Standardizer, Merger, and Resizer
« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2016, 01:05:04 am »
I guess there isn't a way to define a graphic for a werewolf or werecreature/werebeast. Mayday uses the WEREWOLF token, but I don't see any evidence of that or other weird names that Toady might have called it in the /raw/objects/ folder.
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burned

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Re: Quiet-Sun's Standard and Tools: Updater, Standardizer, Merger, and Resizer
« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2016, 10:19:17 am »
Quote from: jecowa on June 25, 2016, 01:05:04 am
I guess there isn't a way to define a graphic for a werewolf or werecreature/werebeast. Mayday uses the WEREWOLF token, but I don't see any evidence of that or other weird names that Toady might have called it in the /raw/objects/ folder.

Werewolf was a "wolf man" creature prior to the introduction of night creatures in 31.17. They have since been replaced by werebeasts. Night creatures that are associated with a creature that can be defined via creature graphics will rotate between Ñ and their defined creature tile.
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The process of delving into the black abyss is to me the keenest form of fascination. - H. P. Lovecraft
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jecowa

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Re: Quiet-Sun's Standard and Tools: Updater, Standardizer, Merger, and Resizer
« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2016, 11:58:32 am »
Thanks for the explanation. From the tilesetes article on the wiki, it looks like Ñight creatures can't have their tile redefined.
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