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Author Topic: Noob questions  (Read 2979 times)

Jilano

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Noob questions
« on: February 06, 2016, 01:44:42 am »

Hello,
I am a big (french) noob and i have some questions for you.
I made 2 or 3 forts but i always do  the same things and have the same problems:

1) I cant find iron ore, the only thing i succed to mine was tetrahedrite but i dont know what to do with after smelt it. Should I dig mor deeper to fnd iron ore?

2) My dwarf dont fish, whereas I have small lake and I made it as a fishing zone. I wanted to make fishing industry but i never fish anything... Could we fish in every water?

3) I made a dining room and some of my dwarf use it because it is also a meeting point but I have the impress that no one use it to eat! Did I do something wrong?

4) What is the best way to make food for my dwarf? Farm? because I had no more pumplet seed because I let them to be cook...

5) Is the militia very important in the early game? I dont know how to do it (and I dont have iron for weapons) so i usually use only cage trap.

 
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taptap

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Re: Noob questions
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2016, 03:23:55 am »

Hello,
I am a big (french) noob and i have some questions for you.
I made 2 or 3 forts but i always do  the same things and have the same problems:

1) I cant find iron ore, the only thing i succed to mine was tetrahedrite but i dont know what to do with after smelt it. Should I dig mor deeper to fnd iron ore?

2) My dwarf dont fish, whereas I have small lake and I made it as a fishing zone. I wanted to make fishing industry but i never fish anything... Could we fish in every water?

3) I made a dining room and some of my dwarf use it because it is also a meeting point but I have the impress that no one use it to eat! Did I do something wrong?

4) What is the best way to make food for my dwarf? Farm? because I had no more pumplet seed because I let them to be cook...

5) Is the militia very important in the early game? I dont know how to do it (and I dont have iron for weapons) so i usually use only cage trap.

1) By all means search a bit more, but as likely as not there is no iron in your embark. Silver, copper work fine for blunt weapons, bronze is good enough for edged weapons. Over time you will be able to equip your militia with steel/iron acquired from trade or goblins (if any come to your place).

2) Is fishing labour enabled on a dwarf?

3) Dwarves don't eat that often. If they eat elsewhere a possible reason is a long distance between food stockpile and dining room.

4) Many ways.

Farming is the obvious one. You can rebuild your seed stock by gathering some in the caverns, by not cooking (but brewing, raw eating) still available plump helmets, by buying some from the caravan. Similarly you can build a seed stock for overground plants by gathering on the surface.

Eggs are one of the most efficient food sources. The birds are fairly cheap on embark.

Hunting or animal husbandry (needs a breeding pair and some time) brings a lot of meat over time. The latter trains crossbow dwarves as well.

Fishing is very efficient where it is suitable.

5) Not really, but you want it prepared before it is needed. Training beats equipment, even copper is ok for hammers and maces, add a helm, a leather armor and a shield and let a few dwarves train away. If you want to play without militia, you should make some other contingency plans.

PatrikLundell

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Re: Noob questions
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2016, 04:54:28 am »

2) Fishing has to be enabled, as taptap said. Also note that fish cleaning has to be enabled on some dwarves as well. Fishing is actually a pain, because dwarves with fishing enabled tend to perform no other duties, especially not clean the fish they caught, leaving it to rot.

4) On embark, you should disable cooking of plants you want to grow, to preserve their seeds. That's done from the 'z' stocks kitchen menu, where you tab to the appropriate group. Also disable booze cooking. Using plant collection to collect surface plants to brew and get seeds from for over ground farming works well. Personally I grow plants only for brewing, with solid food provided by meat and eggs, as well as byproducts of booze brewing (such as strawberry farming producing both berries for booze and plants for cooking).

5) It's very embark dependent, and also depends on play style. I rely mainly on traps. What you SHOULD do, however, is to set up an early protection in the form of a raising drawbridge to close off you fortress in case of trouble. I typically create an early airlock with cage traps in between, then build a recessed courtyard for over ground farming and grazers (sheep for wool and meat), as well as the trade depot. This courtyard is decked over and a trade entrance is dug (3 tiles wide serpentine path with cage traps and raising drawbridges at the ends). I then add 1-3 additional, single tile wide entrances decked out with lots of cage traps (airlocked, of course), so siegers can be dealt with a few at a time, and I can close off one entrance to recover the cages and reload the traps while the enemy is directed to the next entrance. Some players consider this to be cowardly and borderline cheating, though.
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EBannion

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Re: Noob questions
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2016, 12:20:57 pm »

2) Also, keep in mind that you can end up with an area being 'fished out'. You might eventually get a message that there are no more fish. If that happens, you're SOL as far as it goes for fishing in that biome (though if your embark has several biomes with water, the water in the other biomes should still have fish... until they run out, too.)
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Noob questions
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2016, 12:37:32 pm »

@EBannion: Are you sure it's the biome? I've seen it said there are some 16*16 tiles in action for fish, in which case you ought to be able to deplete one murky pool, but still have some left in another, provided it's located in a different tile. I don't know how that translates to contiguous bodies of water (brook, lake, ocean, etc), but would suspect those somehow pool their resources.
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greycat

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Re: Noob questions
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2016, 02:25:41 pm »

1) I cant find iron ore, the only thing i succed to mine was tetrahedrite but i dont know what to do with after smelt it. Should I dig mor deeper to fnd iron ore?

Iron appears mostly in sedimentary deposits.  So, it's most common in shallow levels, around rivers and aquifers.  Digging deeper isn't likely to find iron.

Tetrahedrite gives you copper and a bit of silver, when smelted.  If you also have cassiterite (tin) you can turn the copper into bronze.  Otherwise, you're stuck with your copper, plus whatever metals you can import, or recover from goblins.

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3) I made a dining room and some of my dwarf use it because it is also a meeting point but I have the impress that no one use it to eat! Did I do something wrong?

Dwarves don't eat very often, so you may not see a lot of activity in the dining room.  Don't worry too much about it.  They'll eat when they get hungry.  Just make sure you have food.

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4) What is the best way to make food for my dwarf? Farm? because I had no more pumplet seed because I let them to be cook...

Farming is important for booze and cloth (and paper, if you're doing paper).  For actual food there are plenty of other sources -- gathering surface plants, slaughtering animals (after you've let them reproduce for a few years), eggs, milk/cheese, caravans, etc.  I usually do a little of everything.

Turn off cooking of plants that you want to grow, because that destroys the seeds.  Brewing is fine.

You can get more plump helmets from the dwarven caravan, or by opening up a cavern.
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EBannion

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Re: Noob questions
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2016, 02:54:57 pm »

@EBannion: Are you sure it's the biome? I've seen it said there are some 16*16 tiles in action for fish, in which case you ought to be able to deplete one murky pool, but still have some left in another, provided it's located in a different tile. I don't know how that translates to contiguous bodies of water (brook, lake, ocean, etc), but would suspect those somehow pool their resources.

It's possible. I didn't do particularly exhaustive tests. Also I don't tend to settle in murky-pool-rich areas.
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Jilano

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Re: Noob questions
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2016, 03:26:26 pm »

Thank you for your answers!
I have fishing activate on 4 or 6 dwarfs but i only have realy few lakes so it could be possible there is no fish, they alos maybe cant reach water, but I channel around the lake and it dont change anything.

6) I have read about sedimentary deposits but I thought it was the same logic than minecraft. As I dont have any river, is there a place wich could have more chance to have sedimentary? Are these deposits big?

7) On my stockpile I wanted to make a stockpile only for subterranean seeds but I have the impress that I just can allow every kind of seeds :/ Is there a way to prevent other seeds to come in this stockpile?

8) When you say dont cook plant, does the millstone count as cooking? (in order to preserve seeds)

9) a 1tile high wall could block the first invasions or can they climb it? or destroy it?
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greycat

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Re: Noob questions
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2016, 03:39:42 pm »

I have fishing activate on 4 or 6 dwarfs but i only have realy few lakes so it could be possible there is no fish, they alos maybe cant reach water, but I channel around the lake and it dont change anything.

That is way too many fisherdwarves.  You don't need more than 1.  I don't even use any.

Keep in mind that if you actually catch any fish, you will need a fishery workshop to process it, and a dwarf to do that work (Fish Cleaning).

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6) I have read about sedimentary deposits but I thought it was the same logic than minecraft. As I dont have any river, is there a place wich could have more chance to have sedimentary? Are these deposits big?

Your embark area is a tiny, tiny part of the whole world.  If you don't see any iron, then you probably just don't have any.  Most places don't.

Make copper armor to train your Armorsmith (and to wear, until you get better stuff), or bronze if you happen to find cassiterite locally.  Request iron, pig iron, steel, tin, bronze, bismuth bronze, etc. from the caravan.  Use steel for weapons first, then helms, then body armor, as you manage to acquire it.

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7) On my stockpile I wanted to make a stockpile only for subterranean seeds but I have the impress that I just can allow every kind of seeds :/ Is there a way to prevent other seeds to come in this stockpile?

You can specify the types of seeds that will be allowed in the stockpile, by going into the settings (q s).

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8) When you say dont cook plant, does the millstone count as cooking? (in order to preserve seeds)

Milling produces seeds.

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9) a 1tile high wall could block the first invasions or can they climb it? or destroy it?

They cannot destroy it, but they might be able to climb it.  But I don't know how good they are at climbing 1-z walls yet.  More research is needed.
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Aslandus

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Re: Noob questions
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2016, 04:32:16 pm »

Quote
8) When you say dont cook plant, does the millstone count as cooking? (in order to preserve seeds)

Milling produces seeds.
In addition, milling can only be done on some plants, such as wheat and sweet pods.

5) Is the militia very important in the early game? I dont know how to do it (and I dont have iron for weapons) so i usually use only cage trap.
Personally, I find militias to be very useful for the whole game, and set up a squad as soon as I can produce (non-wood) weapons and (any material) shields, which isn't long. It gives you an adaptable response to almost any threat the game throws at you, apart from things you can't kill like weather and self-made problems like your base flooding. If you choose to go without a militia, you need to figure out some way to deal with threats, which could end up being a longer, more tedious process.

Mathalor

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Re: Noob questions
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2016, 06:05:13 pm »

to forbid cooking of seeds, don't mess with the stockpile, go into your stocks menu, default z.  press tab until kitchen is highlighted.  press return.  press tab again until seeds are highlighted.  go up and down the menu pressing c until all of them are disabled.

I actually think that they are disabled by default, but if you're cooking seeds, that's how to shut it off.

A screw press will also destroy seeds.  If you're heavy into pressing.

The cutoff might be higher up, but when I'm looking for iron, I dig about on the rocky levels between the ground and the first cavern.

I'm pretty new, though.  I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2016, 06:08:44 pm by Mathalor »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Noob questions
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2016, 06:09:30 pm »

- Seed cooking is disabled by default, but cooking of the seed containing vegetable isn't.
- (At least some) Goblins are very good at scaling walls, basically keeping normal speed upwards. However, they won't scale walls unless they have a reason to, which translates into them seeing a target on the other side (e.g. because you closed the drawbridge in their face, so they saw your dorfs/livestock in the other side, and know they're there).
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Niddhoger

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Re: Noob questions
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2016, 12:37:21 am »

You do NOT need iron/steel to have a successful fort.  As others have mentioned, iron is largely a sedimentary stone.  One of its three ores can be found in volcanic stone, but again, only near the surface.  You will NEVER find deep iron.  When you smelt tetra, you get a little silver.  That silver makes great warhammers that are aproximately as lethal as steel edged weapons.  The copper armor is defnitely low grade, though.  Its still better than wood/leather/bone/shell stuff.  Use wood for shields though. 

Never enable both fishing and fish cleaning on the same dwarf.  They tend to just leave the fish on the ground to rot instead of taking them to be cleaned.  Those "lakes" are just murky pools, though.  Actual lakes are giant and never fit within a standard embark square.  Murky pools are stagnant swamp water, and if they even have fish will quickly run out.

Dwarves eat exactly twice a season.  So one dwarf will only need t use the dining room 8 times a year.  However, if you have tables set up elsewhere (like for a library or hospital), they may eat there too.  Offices (like for the manager) will also be eaten at by the owner of the office.

Its hard to beat a good plant gatherer, actually.  In areas of dense vegetation I've seen a level 5 one bring in 100+ units of plants within just a few weeks.  Then in hte summer they can strip hundreds more food off of fruit trees with a stepladder.  A more passive way is to just leave cage traps throughout the wilds (watch where animals usually move and place traps there) or on your open door to the caverns.  20 traps in a narrow hallways leading back into your fort can drown you in cavern meat (and bones/leather).  Eggs and non-grazers I found exploity, as they require no actual food.  Pigs locked in a stone room for generations still create milk and bacon out of... rock dust? However the best egg-layers are reptiles hands-down.  Its very easy to capture a breeding pair of cave crocs from the caverns, and they'll lay clutches several times larger than a turkey.  Same with above-ground crocodiles.

I wouldn't worry about a militia before the first caravan, but by your third migrant wave you should have more than enough dwarves to set aside some for training.  If no one has any skills, they will all train very slowly.  However, once you get an established core of soldiers, you can start breaking that first squad apart to seed o thers.  A single experienced warrior at the head o a new squad can speed up training with his high levels of "organizer" and "teacher" for drills.  Don't give them ull metal armor either, without training it greatly encumbers them.  Start with leather armor and a metal helm+wooden shield.  I think they need no less than 3 levels of "armor user" before they can handle a full metal set of equipment.

Again, iron is neither guaranteed nor needed.  When you embarked on a site it will have told you if a rough sketch of hte metal profile.  "Shallow metal(s)/Deep metal(s)"  If it just had a single shallow metal, then that tetra is all you get.  Iron will never be deep.  You could very well be in a sedimentary layer too (are the layers of stone made of things like chert, rock salt, siltstone, mudstone, shale, chalk, etc)  The sedimentary layer is also the default one unless you spawned in an area with high volcanism (near a volcano or magma vent).  If that's the case you'll see layers of basalt, rhyolite, obsidian, dacite, andesite. 

You can move over one more level and individually select seeds with enter.  I'd actually start by turning off EVERYTHING in the stockpile, then flip to the bottom of the seeds list (the underground seeds are near the bottom) and individually turning them back on with just "enter" over the names.

Milling and processing to barrels/bags will not destroy seeds.  The products cannot be eaten raw, but they do preserve seeds.
However, I'd like o mention here that cooking IS NOT REQUIRED.  Your dwarves will just as HAPPILY eat raw pig guts on top of a stone table as they would a masterfully cooked prepared meal of eggs, flour, dwarven syrup, and strawberries.  Cooking is mostly to consolidate stockpile space (all prepared foods stack together where the ingredients might not), inflate value (its just stupid), and make inedible foods edible (most seeds, flours, quarry leaves, oils, milk, honey, syrup, sugar, etc).  Other than seeds, you have to go out of your way to generate the processed foods that need cooking.  Most foods will be happily eaten raw.  More importantly, you have better things to do with your dwarf-labor than setting aside a cook, a ton of bags, extra barrels, millers/plant processers, and the extra hauling all of this needs.  Those are people that could have gone into your first military squad.  I generally won't make a cook until after the first year or later.

Not even remotely.  A 1-tile wall stops nothing.  Its not even a matter of height, unless you want to build a 20+ z-level wall that enemies become exhausted and fall off of before cresting the top.  Material is more important.  Rough stone and dirt are easy to climb, blocks and bars are still manageable climbs, but smoothed natural stone is impossible to gain a foothold with.  Build that simple wall, but then dig a 3-wide moat down into the first two natural stone layers and smooth those.  Or build 3-high wall and build a "ledge" two tiles wide around the top of it.  Enemies can't reach that far up behind them and pull themselves up over the top. 

However, you never need to actually build defensive walls.  Even if you want to graze animals and make surface farms.  Animals will happily graze on cavern moss underground- just open up the caverns and immediately wall the entrance back off (a single tile breach is all you need).  Now, cave moss will grow on undergorund dirt.  Sheep will eat this with no problems.  For farms (or also pastures) channel into the dirt, then roof over the pit.  Now dig underground tunnels leading to it.  You now have SECURE aboveground farms/pastures... they don't need light to grow.  Surface installations are just for your fun.  Even archery towers or marksdorfs shooting off of walls will loose range from the extra heigh, and siege engines are completely incapable of firing up/down z-levels. 


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Jilano

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Re: Noob questions
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2016, 04:56:04 am »

ok thanks
My problem is that i dont evolve. I have 4 migration waves, 3 caravanes but no milicia, and my dwarf run out of alcohol every 2 weeks :/
I do quickly what i know how to do and take years for little things which sometimes even doesn t work!!

My new problems are about brew industry. I made 5 3*3 farm plots, one for each kind of underground plants : pig tails, pumple elmet, sweet pods, quarry bushes, cave wheat. I also add a stockpile just beside which should contain every ressources i could gather with this farm. But my farmers prefer take a long time to put the ressources in a general food stockpile at the other side of my fortress.... I also add 2 quern/still/kitchen/farmer's workshop near the closest stockpile to increase the speed of brewing but as the farmers dont put resources in this it takes really long time to craft. And a second problem is that my brewer stop brew when they run out of ingredients but dont restart when new ingredients arrive! 
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Noob questions
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2016, 10:19:18 am »

- Don't give the dorfs the chance to screw up, i.e. don't make several general food stockpiles, but go down into the stockpile settings to tweak them so that you only send e.g. plants and fruits to the farmer's stockpile, while all other kinds of food goes into the general one.
- It can also be noted that quarry bushes cannot be brewed, only cooked.
- Finally, you're going to drown in farm produce with all those farms.
- And yes, workshops stop their production orders when any resource runs out. However, once you've gotten off the ground you should have sufficiently large stocks so you only need to restart production one or a few times per year.
- My main problem initially with brewing is that I run out of barrels/large pots to store the booze in, so producing large pots from wood and/or stone is a high priority.
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