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[Iamblichus]

I haven't had anything climb single tile wall (with carved fortification) overhangs.  I did have a goblin dodge through the wall tho.  It looks like they can quantum teleport like sparring dwarves sometimes do.

Code: [Select]

_F
W
D

(It is on top of a bluff, D is a dirt wall, W is a block wall, F is a block wall with fortifications carved into it.)


I just looked at the wiki there is a confirmed bug with fortifications-
 Creatures can now jump through fortifications Bug:8160

[Sanctume]

There seems to be a difference between:

b-C-W (constructed block wall), then d-A (designate carve fortification) which create a fortification with a roof (floor on z+1)

compared to b-C-F (constructed fortification) which creates a fortification with no roof, this latter seems to have issues on being climb-able or jumping through.

[Iamblichus]

There seems to be a difference between:

b-C-W (constructed block wall), then d-A (designate carve fortification) which create a fortification with a roof (floor on z+1)

compared to b-C-F (constructed fortification) which creates a fortification with no roof, this latter seems to have issues on being climb-able or jumping through.

Any idea if building a floor on top of b-C-F solves the problem?

[Starver]

Any idea if building a floor on top of b-C-F solves the problem?

Whether or not it does, it takes up twice the materials and (roughly) twice the time-to-build.

I have vague memories of constructed walls not being originally carvable into fortifications (or, certainly, I didn't originally use this option), but for quite a while now I've switched to Construct Wall (and hence an automatic floor above) in all cases, and then sending the Engravers in, soon after.  (Still possibly 'twice the time', give or take, but at least it's not two stone-hauling tasks, just one and then an engraver's commute - who then usually sticks around to carve the nearest neighbour.)

These days I have different challenges, for my various 'traditional' (pre-climbing, but still designed to be climb-impenetrable) designs of architecture.

[Niddhoger]

Just dig a moat around your wall.  I prefer 3 tiles wide, and make the bottom layer 5 tiles wide.  With the two extra tiles going inwards "under" the wall.  This is simply the easiest way to get the two-tile "lip" that can't be diagonally climbed up.  Bonus points if you dig it into the first few stone layers and smooth it up.  Its much quicker than building tall walls that need lips over them.  And when you dig into stone, you get a usable item to make stuff with. 

You still need at least 1z-level of wall, though, to block ranged units if nothing else.  You can then build a second layer with fortifications.  I think you have to be a legendary ranged user to shoot through fortifications with no penalties without being directly adjacent from it, and this set up will leave your fortifications no closer than 4 tiles from an enemy. 

[Iamblichus]

Just dig a moat around your wall.  I prefer 3 tiles wide, and make the bottom layer 5 tiles wide.  With the two extra tiles going inwards "under" the wall.  This is simply the easiest way to get the two-tile "lip" that can't be diagonally climbed up.  Bonus points if you dig it into the first few stone layers and smooth it up.  Its much quicker than building tall walls that need lips over them.  And when you dig into stone, you get a usable item to make stuff with. 

You still need at least 1z-level of wall, though, to block ranged units if nothing else.  You can then build a second layer with fortifications.  I think you have to be a legendary ranged user to shoot through fortifications with no penalties without being directly adjacent from it, and this set up will leave your fortifications no closer than 4 tiles from an enemy.

I hadn't thought about digging under the walls like that.  My only concerns about your design that you might need a paved road around the outside of the moat to keep the trees out of jumping distance.  And of course, you will need to pave or fill the moat.  I'm still uncertain as to how much space is needed from the edge of the wall to the first tree.

edit- In your example you mentioned digging in to stone which would not require paving but if there are a few layers of soil you would have to worry about trees in the moat.

[Starver]

edit- In your example you mentioned digging in to stone which would not require paving but if there are a few layers of soil you would have to worry about trees in the moat.

I don't do it myself, but apparently putting down a (nul-contents) stockpile has been a trick used to prevent vegetation from growing (including in subterranean aquaducts, that might occasionally empty down to fertile mud and then end up blocked with mushroom-trees).  Assuming that still works.

If you're paving, instead, make it the good-quality road.  Less materials, and trains up your architect(s).  If you're doing it on dug-into-soil then you won't even need to smooth down boulders to let you lay the full rectangles down because the dug surface (whether fresh soil or bedrock... although you won't be so interested in paving any bedrock bits) is completely boulderless.

[Bumber]

Yes, creatures can jump 1z, then hold onto the wall surface, and proceed to climb from there.

Adventurers can't jump up z-levels, and I'm reasonably sure NPCs can't either. If you build something like an upside-down pyramid, it's not climb-safe regardless of jumping.

-snip-

Umm... what's your point?

So, if I am reading this correctly, a single z-level wall with a floor overhang should be unclimbable?

Yes.

I haven't had anything climb single tile wall (with carved fortification) overhangs.

Maybe you've just been lucky. Invaders won't climb without a visible target, and not if there's a better option.

There seems to be a difference between:

b-C-W (constructed block wall), then d-A (designate carve fortification) which create a fortification with a roof (floor on z+1)

compared to b-C-F (constructed fortification) which creates a fortification with no roof, this latter seems to have issues on being climb-able or jumping through.

Either can be jumped through. Jumping turns the creature into a projectile, and projectiles pass through fortifications. Maybe they generally won't chose to do so, but it can be done manually in adventure/arena mode, and they've been known to for at least one of those as per bug 8160. I can't speak for climb-ability.

[callisto8413]

So...for a wall to work..you need something like:

            Wall?
     Floor
Wall
Wall

?

[Iamblichus]

So...for a wall to work..you need something like:

            Wall?
     Floor
Wall
Wall

?

No acording to the post just above yours you only need

      Floor
Wall

That should be unclimbable

[Skullsploder]

The easiest way to make an unclimbable wall is to make a 2z deep moat and fill the bottom layer with magma. Or water. Or repeating spikes. Or weapon traps. Or ravenous beasts. Or whatever. Then put a 1z wall with a 2 tile overhang.

[PatrikLundell]

The stockpile trick will block saplings from maturing, but it seems you still suffer the FPS penalty of a fully forested area, if my experience is correct.

[Skullsploder]

If you don't like the exploitiness of the empty stockpile, you could make it a finished goods stockpile that only allows skull totems, and make skull totems whenever possible, particularly out of the skulls of defeated invaders. That way your fort would slowly surround itself with terrifying reminders of its martial prowess.

[Sanctume]

For a 2-wide dry moat, ramps are enough to prevent trees growing in the moat.

[PatrikLundell]

Currently you can't make totems out of sapient creatures...