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[Criptfeind]

Right right. Like I mentioned, that means that everyone multiplies repeatedly? So In that case, if you add multiple things on it gets expensive super fast?

Like, by that logic, wouldn't his agent cost... [1][2][2][2][2][1.1][.5]=[8.8] Instead of, as we see, the 4.55E... Which means, the total cost to create it was 9.1 before agent discount, which is equal to simply adding each effect 2+2+2+2+1.1. So, there is no base cost (even though it's talked about in the rules) and there is no multiplication (even though it's talked about in the rules). And there's certainly no progression of costs between the +1 stat and the -1 stat.

Edit: I guess my first question is answered. And perhaps the other questions are rendered moot as well. Although it still leaves a lot of confusing apparently not true rules laying around

[Roboson]

Yeah I think that one multiplication rule isn't really a thing. It sounded as if the costs were summated, not multiplied. However, they are divided by being attached to a trinket or agent. In that case, the base cost may be 1/2. And you multiply the trait costs by that .5 to get the actual cost. Thats how I did it to get my agent cost.

[Happy Demon]

Yeah I think that one multiplication rule isn't really a thing. It sounded as if the costs were summated, not multiplied. However, they are divided by being attached to a trinket or agent. In that case, the base cost may be 1/2. And you multiply the trait costs by that .5 to get the actual cost. Thats how I did it to get my agent cost.

The system is based on KJP's system, which does have all traits multiplied together to get the cost.
And it even says in the Big Book o' Information Stolen Seer's Tome O' Information that it does multiply the trait value to get the cost.
This makes repeated beneficial traits become more and more expensive. Thus encouraging specialists, rather than super soldiers.

In fact, if you made a Touched with any +1 stat, you'd see the cost skyrockets, due to multiplication.

Edit: Actually, that likely wouldn't be possible... if you combined [No Sustenance] with any [Stat +1] trait. you'd see the costs increase more than simple addition.

[Criptfeind]

Yeah, sure, that's the issue though, is that's what the rules say. But in actual practice that's not how it's happening.

[Happy Demon]

Yeah, sure, that's the issue though, is that's what the rules say. But in actual practice that's not how it's happening.

You know what? I call BS on that. We haven't had a single Tick of actions yet. So you'll have to point out where this is happening.

If this is regarding a secret price check, I think micelus might've actually just miscalculated.

[Criptfeind]

I got my agent price checked yesterday via PM because I had questions about the traits. It is the right price. You can use that to check and see if your price also checks out using the same system.

Edit: Also thus far every action has been made with the assumption of addition and not multiplication and the GM has said nothing.

[Lucus Casius]

He told me multiplication when I asked him earlier.  Page... two or three of the OOC?

Also, sorry!  I've been distracted the past couple of days, completely forgot about this.  I'll get a post up soon.

[Lucus Casius]

Are traits additive or multiplicative prior to multiplying by base cost?

Multiplicative. That first trait I have on top of the list is an exception.

Apologies about the doublepost, but on reading the actions and the listed costs, thought I should dig this up again.

I'm not actually sure where people applying the E cost comes from, either?  Traits are just multiplied by base cost, aren't they?  So, since agents have a 50% cost, and their base cost is 2I...

Let's assume an agent with a trait that costs 2, a trait that costs 1.5, and a trait that costs 3.  The total cost of the agent should be (2 Base * (2 * 1.5 * 3))/2, or 9I total.  Unless you somehow apply 5E to the agent, increasing the base cost (and thus increasing the final cost).

I'm a bit confused about the price checking thing.  Where has he posted those?  Until I see some actual evidence, I'm with Happy Demon on calling BS.

[Roboson]

It is my casual, and perhaps inaccurate, observation that the GM tends to be on in the evenings. I think all the answers to our questions will come soon enough. Hopefully 

[Happy Demon]

Are traits additive or multiplicative prior to multiplying by base cost?

Multiplicative. That first trait I have on top of the list is an exception.

Apologies about the doublepost, but on reading the actions and the listed costs, thought I should dig this up again.

I'm not actually sure where people applying the E cost comes from, either?  Traits are just multiplied by base cost, aren't they?  So, since agents have a 50% cost, and their base cost is 2I...

Let's assume an agent with a trait that costs 2, a trait that costs 1.5, and a trait that costs 3.  The total cost of the agent should be (2 Base * (2 * 1.5 * 3))/2, or 9I total.  Unless you somehow apply 5E to the agent, increasing the base cost (and thus increasing the final cost).

I'm a bit confused about the price checking thing.  Where has he posted those?  Until I see some actual evidence, I'm with Happy Demon on calling BS.

Okay, looking through the Stolen Seer's Tome o' Information, it seems to go like this:

The agent itself costs 2 Idols, and will cost an additional Idol for every 5 Essence used in creation.
However, traits have a 50% cost when applied to an Agent, meaning they start with an initial [0.5].
This means that the agent with said traits would cost:
0.5*2*1.5*3=4.5E
And because the Essence cost doesn't exceed 5 Essence, it still only costs 2 Idols.

You seem to have confused the Letters I and E somewhere.

Edit: The Agent will have a 50% chance of costing 4 Essence and 2 Idols.
And a 50% chance of costing 5 Essence and 2 Idols.

Wait, doesn't that mean it has a 50% chance of costing 3 Idols instead of 2 Idols?
micelus, clarify.

[Lucus Casius]

"Traits
The base cost of a creation is multiplied by the trait cost to produce the final cost. If necessary (which is more than likely) a new trait may be suggested and will be pricechecked. Please mark posts with "$$$" when pricechecks are required."

"All traits given to an Agent have a 50% discount but have a base cost of 2I "

As agents have a Base cost of 2I, we multiply that by the trait cost.  I'm not seeing anything suggesting traits add a value based on E, unless the base cost uses E.  So using a separate action to add traits to an agent AFTER creation might use E?  But that's to add traits to a population unit, and agents may be considered distinct enough not to count for that purpose.  Not sure.

[Happy Demon]

"Traits
The base cost of a creation is multiplied by the trait cost to produce the final cost. If necessary (which is more than likely) a new trait may be suggested and will be pricechecked. Please mark posts with "$$$" when pricechecks are required."

As agents have a Base cost of 2I, we multiply that by the trait cost.  I'm not seeing anything suggesting traits add a value based on E, unless the base cost uses E.

It comes from my experience with KJP's system, where Essence is the main component in creating creatures and Agents.
Also, it says that for every 5 Essence you spend in creating the Agent, you'll have to spend another Idol on top of the 2 you use initially.
If you only use Idols to make Agents, why would the part about Essence be there? You would never use Essence if you only used Idols.

Agents
A single individual gifted with incredible power. All traits given to an Agent have a 50% discount but have a base cost of 2I (permanent until the agent's death) and a further cost of 1I per every 5E used in the Agent's creation. Agents are marked by the [Divine] trait and are known to Fate. Agents can be directly commanded by their god and cannot go against their god's desires. Agents live much longer than the average mortal.

[Lucus Casius]

To clarify, as written, agents don't actually have a base cost.  "All traits given to an Agent have a 50% discount but have a base cost of 2I (permanent until the agent's death) and a further cost of 1I per every 5E used in the Agent's creation."

As written, the traits explicitly have a base cost of 2I, and the base cost of these traits increase by 5E.  I don't know where the E comes from, as written, but as written is all I have to go on until told otherwise.

[IronyOwl]

EDIT: Er, to clarify, can infinite traits be applied to one action which then all multiplicatively apply to the whole thing? If I tried to make a +1 Speed, -1 Strength ring, for instance, would that be (2 * 0.5 * 0.5) = 0.5E, or ([2 + 0.5] * 0.5) = 1.25E, or something else?

4. I don't see why you multiplied 0.5 twice if you used the +1Speed and -1Strength traits, but you could theoretically dump a large amount of negative traits to get the cost to near 0. Theoretically.

This appears to (indirectly) clarify that trait costs are applied multiplicatively and that multiple traits may be applied to a single blessing/artifact/etc, since that's the only way negative traits could reduce cost.

It's possible stats of the same kind are additive before being multiplied in, but I'd lean more towards +4 Cha costing 16, not 6.

Also the second 0.5 was for the discount for applying traits to an artifact. Or... are the traits themselves halved for that? Couldn't be, because then half the traits would reduce the cost rather than increase it.

[Bluexdog]

Can anyone guess what game my characters namesake is from??