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Author Topic: What are your embarking tips and tricks?  (Read 9073 times)

NESgamer190

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Re: What are your embarking tips and tricks?
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2016, 11:20:07 am »

A few tips for those of ya who love volcanoes:

There's not too much need to bring loads of lignite or bituminous coal:  If you can harness the volcano right, magma forges and smelters and all will be harnessed with ease, and no need for fuel, except for steel.

Aquifers can still be a hassle, but this time, you got an option:  Using lava to obsidianize layers of aquifer, and funnel down.  (Any rocks of obsidian ya get are a nice bonus too!)

Be mindful of magma crabs, as they can (in some maps where the magma is able to let lava swimmers climb out) run on the surface and start igniting many things to hassle ya.

A few general tips:

If ya dig out under a tree, then cut it down, then expect a gap of open space.  A log can easily patch up the hole though.

Grazers that chew through a lot of pasture, such as yaks and water buffalo, may be best served as instant butchering fodder.

A breeding pair of pigs is not a bad idea.

Need just a little more wood on the wood-scarce sites, and realized you didn't get enough wood?  That wonderful wagon of yours can supply 3 emergency logs.
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FrisianDude

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Re: What are your embarking tips and tricks?
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2016, 12:48:25 pm »

I had a magma crab for the first time in a while recently. First caused a giant coati to fall in the magma, but I had to reload the game for other reason. Same thing set someone's leather cloak on fire causing only upper body melting wounds
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Bumber

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Re: What are your embarking tips and tricks?
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2016, 02:12:52 pm »

Searching for embarks with high drainage is a good way to find a river near a non-aquifer biome. You won't exclude any embarks that intersect with aquifer biomes. This means you can still easily benefit from the ores of that biome by using the the dry biome to bypass the aquifer.
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Sanctume

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Re: What are your embarking tips and tricks?
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2016, 03:31:37 pm »

Embark costs:
Malachite ore $3
Cassiterite ore $6
Tetrahedrite ore $9
Bismuthinite ore $6 ?

For Bronze Bars:
1 Malachite ore + 1 Cassiterite ore = 8 Bronze Bars (for $9 cost)
Multiply by 2: 16 Bronze Bars (for $18 cost, and 2 fuel)

For Bismuth Bronze Bars:
Smelt 1 Cassiterite ore = 4 Tin Bars ($6)
Smelt 2 Malachite ores = 8 Copper Bars (2 x $3 = $6)
Smelt Bismuthinite ore = 4 Bismuth Bars ($6)

1 Tin bars + 2x Copper bars + 1 Bismuth bars = 4 Bismuth Bronze bars
Multiply by 4: 4 Tin bars + 8x Copper bars + 4 Bismuth bars = 16 Bismuth Bronze bars (for $18 cost and 8 fuel)

--
Helm = 1 bar
High Boots = 1 bar
Gauntlets = 1 bar
Mail Shirt = 2 bars
Greaves = 2 bars
Breastplate = 3 bars
An armor set = 10 bars.

khearn

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Re: What are your embarking tips and tricks?
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2016, 03:41:35 pm »

The breastplate only adds an extra layer over the upper and lower torso, it doesn't cover anything the mail shirt doesn't. It's a nice extra layer, but doesn't add that much extra, considering the material cost and weight. I usually don't even put it in my uniforms. You can omit the breastplate, and still get full coverage for just 7 bars, leaving one for a weapon, and thus get two fully equipped soldiers with your 16 bars.
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Sanctume

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Re: What are your embarking tips and tricks?
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2016, 04:01:30 pm »

The breastplate only adds an extra layer over the upper and lower torso, it doesn't cover anything the mail shirt doesn't. It's a nice extra layer, but doesn't add that much extra, considering the material cost and weight. I usually don't even put it in my uniforms. You can omit the breastplate, and still get full coverage for just 7 bars, leaving one for a weapon, and thus get two fully equipped soldiers with your 16 bars.

Yep.  And if bismuth is available in the embark screen, it may be worth taking tetrahedrite instead of malachite.

Smelt 1 Tetrahedrite = 4 Copper Bars + 0-4 Silver Bars (at 20% chance).  I usually use that extra silver bar to make war hammer or mace.

Niddhoger

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Re: What are your embarking tips and tricks?
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2016, 08:07:49 pm »

First thing to do? Dismember the wagon for 3 units of wood.  Then you can use two pieces of wood to make a carpentry and masonry.  The last piece of wood goes into making a wooden training axe for your woodcutter.  The masonry then makes rock blocks.  Bring a couple rocks as well... they'll be your smelters and forges.  They don't need to be magma safe, but you might as well if they are available (same price as normal stone).  Then, like someone else mentioned, bring copper+tin ores and some coal.  The first rock block becomes a wood burner that will make a single unit of charcoal after your woodcutter gets some wood chopped.  Alternatively, you can just bring a single unit of coke/charcoal for 10 points to skip this step.  Then make a smelter and make a unit of coal before a batch of bronze.  Now continue making some more charcoal, but you have enough for your weaponsmith to make a pair of picks.  If you brought a military dwarf (settled near a tower/evil biome/just being cautious), you can go ahead and forge a starter set of armor for him.  Remember, unskilled armor-users get encumbered.  I think you need at least 3 levels in the skill to comfortably use a simple bronze get-up.  Never give full metal to an unskilled dorf (use a sparse leather/bone set for fresh meat, or just give them a single mail shirt).

Forging your own tools, even without a weaponsmith, save massive amounts of money.  Each pick is 44 points, and that axe is something like 68.  8 bronze bars are worth 12 points total.  One stone block to turn into a wood burner/smelter/forge is just 3 points.  For 15 points you can save 156.  It just costs you some time before you can begin digging... do NOT do this if you have to get below ground asap... like in a glacier or freezing biome. 

I prefer to bring two skilled miners.  I know, I know, leveling up in dirt is so fast! Just a season of making big open sores and shitty ass dirt tunnels is all you need! After forging my own tools, I don't want to wait even more time before starting my fortress! And no, I don't want to build large rooms in the dirt.  I want to dig straight into the stone, and only leave agricultural stuff (farms, underground pastures, related workshops) in the dirt.  Everything else gets carved out of stone like Armok intended.  I also hate looking at giant empty "rooms" that I leveled up in.  You don't get any stone or expose any gems/ore either.  About the only useful thing you could do is level up your miners to make an underground tree farm, but that requires at least 4 layers of soil if you don't want to build a roof or flood stone. 

NEVER bring food on embark and NEVER waste skill points on cooks and brewers.  Want immediate food on embark? Butcher your pack animals.  It is seriously the only good thing you can do with them.  You'll get ~60 food (120 value!) and some crafting materials (bones/hooves/horns/skull), and a couple pieces of leather.  They are just not worth keeping around to get a breeding pair for a number of reasons.  The odds of a breeding pair on embark are just too low.  Your chances of getting a breeding pair by the first caravan are also low.  Even if you get a breeding pair, they take far too long to produce a proper herd.  They will always be large grazers.  They will never be shearable.  I never keep grazers that aren't also shearable.  So I can get milk, yarn, meat, leather, AND bones from the animals.  Or, just use a non-grazer or egg-layer (as they don't require pastures).  Even piercing/resealing the caverns and digging out an underground pasture (or channeling down and roofing over a space) is far more work than just tossing your pigs in a cold stone room or building a couple nest boxes. 

Cooking and brewing simply don't need levels.  Drinks never have a quality level, and food quality levels do NOT matter for happy thoughts.  Its just to abuse their over-the-top trading value.  Even then, butcher the pack animals, set up the farms, and have some idle dwarfs strip the countryside bare.  Build stepladders and drown in apples.  Made use a fisher to gain shells as well, and/or a hunter.  Line the area in cage traps and butcher everything.  Any way you slice it, you can seriously overproduce food waaaaay too quickly to bother starting with skills.  Rendering fat from a ton of turkeys you brought on embark to butcher is another way to jumpstart a new cook's career.

Milk.  If you are going to bring food, bring milk.  Its an easy no-quality job to churn it into cheese at a farmers' shop.  It also comes in its own barrel and is worth half the cost of normal food.  Bringing 5 stacks of 10 different milks gets you 10 more barrels and twice the food for the same price.

That being said, it usually is worth it to bring a skilled grower.  Dabbling growers can actually fail to plant seeds, and then only get 1 plant back from the successful plantings.  Thus, if you want/need to rely on farming early, bring a grower.  Otherwise, you can just use herbalism and keep planting the seeds you get for experience, not caring if they germinate or not.  HOWEVER, there is a compounding effect of high food stacks.  They haul quicker (one stack of 6 instead of 6 stacks of 1), and they brew into barrels more efficiently.  That 1 stack of 6 becomes "Dwarven wine pot [30]" instead of needing six separate pots (and brewing jobs!) to make 6 separate "Dwarven wine pot [5]"  So starting with either a skilled grower/herbalist will ensure higher stacks of plants that require fewer jobs to process and fewer pots/barrels to brew into.  Its an overall time saver.  A skilled herbalist in an embark with dense vegetation can bring in well over 100 food in just about two weeks too.  Its good stuff.

I only ever bring 7 of each seed at most.  I don't like making a giant plot of just plumpies, and 7 is a good number if you ever want to fertilze.  Dwarves get pissy if they have to eat/drink the same thing too much, so you want to grow a spread of  things.  I like 4+ plots of this size to keep up diversity, and a legendary farmer will have you drowning in food even without fertilizer.  Turn on "only farmers harvest" at first. You won't need enough farm plots to prevent your farmer from being able to harvest everything, and he'll level up quicker.  Thus, you can get to higher yields (increased efficiency) sooner.  Once hes legendary you can turn it back on.  If you don't want to bother with refining the various advanced crops, just don't bother with quarry bushes and brew all the cave wheat and sweet pods into booze.  Plump helmets, butchering yields, eggs, fish, and whatever you buy off the caravans should be good enough food variety. 

Just straight up ditch everything below the seeds.  NO you do NOT need a pair of ropes and some cloth on embark.  You don't need a stepladder either. If the area is so wood poor you can't afford to make a stepladder... you don't have the trees to justify even having a stepladder.  Leather is the same price as cheap thread, but doesn't need to be woven into cloth first.  You can just make it straight into bags.  Or, bring the 30 turkeys/geese at 6 points each.  You get ~18 food, some bones, AND a bit of leather for the same price... just have to spend a few seconds butchering and another few seconds tanning the hide.  Either way... don't bring cloth.  Leather will make great bags, make backpacks, waterskins, and quivers.  Cloth can only do the first.  You won't need to replace clothing for a few years either, so you have plenty of time to set up more critical industries and infrastructure before needing textiles. 

If you absolutely must bring cloth, just bring sheep.  You can eventually butcher them for food, but you can also milk them and shear them.  Each shearing job gets you 7 units of wool that you have to process into yarn before weaving into cloth.  It's only worth 42 dwarf bucks per shearing, but again, you get  a continual source of food/leather/bones along with your textiles. 

I like to start with a skilled (high str/creative) mason too.  I want at least some quality furniture for my early dining room.  This gets the good thoughts rolling sooner... but you could just spit out some crappy furniture and then churn out stone blocks.  Once leveled, you can start replacing the place-holder stuff.

A skilled weapon/armorsmith is also good at embark.  Thus, when you finally get your metal industry up and running, you don't need to spend months training on no-quality weapons.  Your military gets at least middling quality asap, and you need significantly fewer jobs until you start spitting out the odd masterwork.

I do like to bring a medical dwarf.  I also leave them as my first scholar to keep their skills from getting rusty, then unassign them if someone actually needs treatment.  Eventually I can draft more doctors from migrants.

Architecture just doesn't matter.  A shoddily constructed forge will never break down.  Its just there to generate happy thoughts that you shouldn't need this early.  If you want to train a dedicated architect, burrow one inside a locked room of freshly mined stone.  Have him design a field of archery targets, but then dismantle them and re-design continuously.  It helps to give him a room and some food/drink.  Just make sure no one with masonry comes in to finish building them.

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cochramd

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Re: What are your embarking tips and tricks?
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2016, 08:34:55 pm »

I actually consider a full suit of armor to contain 3 mail shirts and considers breastplates important because let's face it you can live without your limbs but not without your internal organs, but hey, I'm not a guy who buys ores with his embark points to make armor.
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Crashmaster

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Re: What are your embarking tips and tricks?
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2016, 09:34:15 pm »

+1 for re-rolling the starting seven.

Having three indefatigable dwarves with a smattering of tough, strong and/or agile and few to no negative military traits make a very-effective early military force with starting skills or just wrestling. Small unsupported squads are especially prone to collapsing from fatigue IMO so endurance is the god stat in my militaries.

I'm not sure but I think a dwarf's starting levels affect their maximum achievable levels in fortress mode same as for an adventurer?

khearn

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Re: What are your embarking tips and tricks?
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2016, 10:11:26 pm »

Is there an easy way to reroll without having to go back through the site finder? Every time I've aborted upon seeing the starting seven, it's gone all the way back to the home screen and I've had to select "start playing", go to the site finder, not remember exactly where I had picked, so I have to search with my parameters, and look at all the matching sites again until I find the same place. It makes it such a pain that I don't bother unless I have a completely dismal starting 7. I've tried putting notes on the site finder, but they seem to get deleted when I abort.
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tranquilium

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Re: What are your embarking tips and tricks?
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2016, 07:02:15 am »

First year trading:

Wooden spike ball, as mentioned, are worth a lot, but your carpenter may be busy with other stuff in the first year, like making essential items for dwarves to settle in. Here is my approach:

1. Bring as many limonite ore as possible (they are worthless on maps with iron, but if the map doesn't have iron, you just brought a lot of iron bar for 6 points each)
2. Bring 4 flux stone
3. Bring a few bituminous coal (they are stupidly cheap)
3. Make a wood furnace and smelter in the spring while your miners dig out the initial rooms. Use do it now command to first make a char coal, then make coke twice (you now have 17 bars of coke), then make 2 pig iron bar and then 2 steel bar. You now have 4 steel bars and spring is just about over.
4. In the summer, after the miner dig out your workshops, make 4 steel large serrated disc or steel spike ball. They are worth the same thing.
5. By the time fall rolls around, trade the steel traps to caravan for pretty much anything you want. (four of them and however many mugs you can make should give you between 20000 to 30000 db worth of stuff to trade to the first caravan)
6. smelt two more limonite ore to get 8 bars of iron while your miners go look for flux stone.
7. Make as many steel disc as needed for the human and dwarf caravans in the next year. (The first elven caravan typically bring very little stuff and the mugs you made in the winter and miscellaneous prepared food should be sufficient)

In the embark screen, don't bring any stepladder or crutches, etc. Those can be made on site with very little effort.
The default bags cost 20 points each while there are plenty of bags available costing only 10 points each.
No need to bring any axes, just bring a single log. After you arrived, use the flux stone I mentioned to quickly make a carpenter's work shop and make a wooden train axe. The wooden axe will work just as well as metal ones.
Remember each dwarf only consume 2 food per season. No need to bring too much food unless you are embarking in a really weird place. (As a result, it is better to bring plump helmet seeds and a piece of 2 point meat instead of one plump helmet)
In the newer version, it is better to embark with some of the scholar skills since those are harder to train. Of course, you should also bring the standard 1 token medic dwarf with diagnosis.
I like to bring two cats just to get rid of vermin. You can pasture your cats at the food stockpile to better protect it.
For the rest of the points, bring as many iron ores as possible.

Edit: To be honest, if you want to min-max for material, it is better to do the wagon disassemble and pick forging route. However, bring some of the already made stuff save time, which is also plenty valuable. You will find your miner's time to be pretty valuable in the first year. Another example, you can make your wood burner travel quite a bit and burn a lot of wood for charcoal. Or you can bring a few pieces of bituminous coal and get 9 coke each time.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 07:14:02 am by tranquilium »
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tranquilium

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Re: What are your embarking tips and tricks?
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2016, 07:15:15 am »

Is there an easy way to reroll without having to go back through the site finder? Every time I've aborted upon seeing the starting seven, it's gone all the way back to the home screen and I've had to select "start playing", go to the site finder, not remember exactly where I had picked, so I have to search with my parameters, and look at all the matching sites again until I find the same place. It makes it such a pain that I don't bother unless I have a completely dismal starting 7. I've tried putting notes on the site finder, but they seem to get deleted when I abort.

Why do you need to abort that often? Re-rolling the character traits?
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Sanctume

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Re: What are your embarking tips and tricks?
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2016, 09:46:33 am »

Embarking with a copper pick provides that early weapon just in case.  So it is much of a gamble to make a copper pick from raw ores. 

Serrated discs are ok for trading, but it will not trade steel.  Gather plants, disable select plants and booze from cooking, and you can make lavish meals that will trade for more.

tranquilium

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Re: What are your embarking tips and tricks?
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2016, 11:03:41 am »

Embarking with a copper pick provides that early weapon just in case.  So it is much of a gamble to make a copper pick from raw ores. 

Serrated discs are ok for trading, but it will not trade steel.  Gather plants, disable select plants and booze from cooking, and you can make lavish meals that will trade for more.

It is pretty much for first and possibly second year trading. By third year, lavish meal should be the main export of the fort.
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Sanctume

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Re: What are your embarking tips and tricks?
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2016, 12:29:31 pm »

It's a good tip though about limonite--are they really that cheap at 12 points?  I thought the iron ores are around 25?

Which is why I usually just settle for malachite + cassiterite if it's available.  10 of each gives me 80 bronze bars, and around 10 for serrated disc first 2 caravan trading.  I don't usually rely on caravan after the first 2 trades--unless there is no iron/flux in my embark region.

Are there any tips if someone wants to pursue tavern / library / temple building game?
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