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[Starver]

By the list at the day start...

You as judge could be a Hanging Judge, but then you get an auto day-kill (unstoppable? Assuming it is a kill, and I'm not convinced of that) which sounds too inexorable without some serious counter-role. I think you're an honest uninformed (majority?/minority?) character who is expected not to just murder us all in plain sight.

Fish as bad guy in exactly the right position to lose, D1? That'd mean someone (other than me, who definitely didn't) got the crucial choice right from the start.  Chances of that? Not zero, but not likely.

Myself, had I not been seen attempting to visit the poor unfortunate, would have had just one simple job, as far as the rest of you are concerned, and that's to push Fish as the villain. I could have done many things (still could have, there's plenty of fictions I could adopt, much better than the details and mod confirmations I've already given) and jumped at that result. But I don't think that's the game result we need.

EP looks like he just has to survive. Like me and maybe others with revealed wincons, probably that's a subset of the full character-sheet. But not surehow like me. Too much coincidentally useful info to believe that we've gotten eberything out of the Witness role, in one go.

Fallacy, like you, also looks too superficially simple to just be that.


Which is why I think convicting Fish is the obvious trap. And at least some thought has to be considered as to whether our one and only witness has the one and only useful result. Best guess, Fish as Defendent might indeed suffer immediately if judged guilty, anybody else (including me, as obvious one) fingered by judgement might just get swapped into the Defendent position, if there's not a completely different mechanism for that (the one that chose Fish, N0, and maybe even chose the rest of us for our parts, to greater or lesser degrees). But what will the Witness (EP, or not EP? That is the question..) find to add, N1, now that the obvious stooge is dead already?

I considered the possibility that my visiting our NPC over N0 was an unintended derail move, by me, but I was not disallowed from doing so (had a backup visit suggested, even) so it must be not as game-breaking or unfashionably early an action as it that theory would indicate.

[Elephant Parade]

From least suspicious to most:

• Elephant Parade: no duh
• hector13: Barring significant bastardry/a town player secretly having a killing roll, a scum Judge would be impossible to kill, since they'd control the lynch.
• FoU: I don't think that the investigator would be Evil, but Fallacy's been pretty passive; if you hadn't specifically asked me to focus on the night results, I'd have ranked him below Starver.
• Starver: One of two possible Evil players, assuming that the shown wincons aren't lying to us. I rank him above TBF because the latter has been hilariously evasive, but I'm getting really bad vibes from him; if I was to go with my gut, I'd vote him in a heartbeat. His playstyle feels similar—sorta vague/mysterious/not-very-useful—to how it did in the bonus round (in which he was the Evil role).
• TBF: The other "non-bastard" Evil player. He's been extremely evasive and generally suspicious. I'd accuse him of activelurking, too, but that's apparently a part of his playstyle—which, I might add, I hate with a burning passion. I'm going to take a step back to make sure I'm not just hypertunneling him, but I think he might actually be guilty.

But what will the Witness (EP, or not EP? That is the question..) find to add, N1, now that the obvious stooge is dead already?

Probably nothing; my ability refers specifically to N0, after all.

[Tomasque]

I'm waiting on a reply from Tomasque, byraway.

For what? I must have missed it.

[FallacyofUrist]

FoU: I don't think that the investigator would be Evil, but Fallacy's been pretty passive; if you hadn't specifically asked me to focus on the night results, I'd have ranked him below Starver.

This round is... confusing as all heck. I don't think I have much to contribute other than my night action, which tracks the target...

Anybody have any ideas for who would be best to target this night?

[Starver]

[My, Starver's] playstyle feels similar—sorta vague/mysterious/not-very-useful—to how it did in the bonus round (in which he was the Evil role).

I need to point out that I was deliberately trying to act like I think I normally play as Town, to the extent that I very nearly stopped myself from winning. Now that I'm unforced playing Town, I can see how that might ge confusing, but I'll take it as a complement, even if it kills me..

But what will the Witness (EP, or not EP? That is the question..) find to add, N1, now that the obvious stooge is dead already?

Probably nothing; my ability refers specifically to N0, after all.

That (so far as I recall) isn't a detail that you or Tomasque has revealed...  Interesting that this is so, however. I was tempted to invite you to watch my next visit (at the risk of alerting the wrong character(s)), but that's now off the table, you say...

(Ninja!)

I'm waiting on a reply from Tomasque, byraway.

For what? I must have missed it.

Could have been a scum-stall, you know. If so, I hope you 'find' the 'private message' you missed.

(Ni ja2)

FoU: I don't think that the investigator would be Evil, but Fallacy's been pretty passive; if you hadn't specifically asked me to focus on the night results, I'd have ranked him below Starver.

This round is... confusing as all heck. I don't think I have much to contribute other than my night action, which tracks the target...

Anybody have any ideas for who would be best to target this night?

I don't even know what you do, but looks like you're a better cop than EP. If you follow (or just role/whatever-investigate), I give you the option (your choice, don't tell anyone, even me) of following me to check that what I do has a probably legit outcome. If you're a Watcher, I'd need to tell you where I'm going (and you could just as easily keep an eye on someone else if I've diverted everyone else somewhere). If you're scum, you'll have your own ideas how to play this.

[hector13]

I'm going to bed. In the mean time, I'd like y'all to consider the facts of the case:

• TBF is up for the murder of Mr. NPC. He claims to have visited me, and got no result. Is there anything you'd like to add as to why you got no result?
• Starver's wincon is for TBF to be convicted of said crime, but does not appear to want this to happen. Why?
• EP witnessed Starver visiting Mr. NPC on the night they died. This has been confirmed as true by the mod, at the behest of Starver. Stalling action? I don't think Starver has ever mentioned what it is their action does... /hintnudgewink

If there's anything I'm missing, feel free to add to the list, but try to be brief, and discuss them. I'd like to make a decision by tomorrow evening. I do have someone in mind for this, but I don't want to colour perceptions and say who it is.

[TheBiggerFish]

I did not visit you, hector.

[TheBiggerFish]

*that is to say, my target was hector, but my action doesn't visit.

[TheBiggerFish]

As for getting no result, I was interrupted by courtroom just like everyone else was.

[Starver]

EP witnessed Starver visiting Mr. NPC on the night they died. This has been confirmed as true by the mod, at the behest of Starver. Stalling action? I don't think Starver has ever mentioned what it is their action does... /hintnudgewink

My original action and original wincon, as Town, is something I can't believe is intrinsically harmful to Town win, if used correctly, but could be misaimed. If the wrong person learnt of it and tried to turn my action to their benevit under the guise of providing sage fellow-Townie advice.

I will say that my informationless N0 thoughts were that perhaps helping Cricket was the ultimate purpose, against the anti-Town A. N. Other. (The possibility of Cricket being anti-Town and my helping them against us was also in mi nd, but seems disproven by the NPC's death. So that bullet was dodged.)  It was unfortunate that I got myself implicated, but that does actually somewhat support my further assertions.

The public wincon and purpose of the trial, on the other hand, seems like something granted by another night action, not a game-starting setup. As reported, I got summoned to the trial before being able to try to assist Cricket (but after I chose to). Therevs a much higher chance that this new task of being Plaintiff to the case for which the single bit of evidence is of my own vague involvement was made to happen by a third party. That it interferes badly with the circumstances of the evidence makes it unlikely that it's me (with the power of the evidence-confirmation, willingly given) the Witness (who provides said evidence in the first place), the defendent (who, without the evidence that they can't control, would havr put themselves in the firing line for unknown reasons) and I think that mod-proclaimed Townies who are Detective and Judge have too much obvious power (especially you as Judge) to realistically be the devious minority and self-intentionally in tnose positions of power, without further conflicting skills like untriability or something in the game already, stalling their respective inevitable rampages across the helpless Townie groups.

Thus I respectfully submit that more data is needed. This trial is a farce, triggered by someone (maybe good, maybe evil!) on obviously erroneous circumstances, leaving me as both chief 'public opinion' suspect and the one for some reason demanding justice against Fish. Either a NoLynch acquittal or (riskier) a lynch judgement against me (contempt of court, and new trial?) might reveal the true purpose of this marsupial magistratial meeting.  Or such are my tboughts.


I could reveal more about my basic role, but I feel I ought to see if any of the above means anything to anyone else, first. e.g. are you the person that selected the judicious line-up, for Uninformed Townie reasons?  If that's the kind of thing you'd want to reveal, I would definitely reciprocate with more detail, but if nobody wants to (for legitimate or selfish reasons) then I won't let loose the personal information that I think would help entirely the wrong person. And risk being seen as a villain and a cad, for all that.  Risk lynching, even, though that would remove my skill.  Better unused than misused, I think.

[hector13]

Well, that was enlightening, guys. Great discussion :p

Convince me to vote for someone before bedtime. 4 hours.

[Elephant Parade]

To be honest, I currently find everyone but you (and myself, obviously) incredibly suspicious. If I had to pick one, I'd say... maybe FoU, since lynching him hopefully won't end the game, whereas it seems feasible that Evil!TBF's wincon would be "get Starver lynched"? It could also just be "get someone else lynched", though—in fact, it probably is.

I don't really know.

[Starver]

I would personally rather hear what the proclaimed Detective can detect, than get rid of them. There's that chance he's not a Townie, but I wouldn't personally suggest that lynch.

Objectively, I'd say your viewpoints should be thinking NoLynch, above all with me as next obvious option, before touring the rest of you according to where you yourself lie.  Personally, I have a vague "worse than me" order of suspicions, but even in my mind I am not fully commiting to those until I see more.

But I'll continue to go against character about Fish. Consider if Fish is evil and also set up the courtroom roles, that'd be the last thing we should consider fulfiling on face value. If someone else did, then how do they even know they got the right defendent? If instead an evil has set up Fish as fall-guy, again, we probably shouldn't do that.

[TheBiggerFish]

I am in favor of a No Lynch at the moment, ss of yet.  Certainly nobody has made a convincing argument otherwise.

Starver:Are you willing to claim what your action was supposed to do?

[hector13]

If anybody - specifically TBF and FoU - has anything to say, do so soon. I'm second guessing myself as a result of having not much in the way of evidence. We also appear to have theee investigators (EP, TBF and FoU) which doesn't make any sense. Enough content to make a decision.

Else I'll random lynch one of y'all, so pick a number between one and four. First come, first dibs!