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[Elephant Parade]

EP: who did you target, man?

I targeted you, since I can do so without dooming us to suffer a paradox.

And also, Shakerag is not in the game no more.

Oh, so he vanished when he caused the paradox? That's good to know.

I think we should lynch you, since all this adding of people just makes a paradox more likely.

Well... I'd say I'd just not use it, but I can't—to win, I need to have used it at the end of the game, and it looks like it refreshes whenever we fly back to D0 (it's a one-shot). Can I just keep cloning you forever, or will even that cause problems?

I'd appreciate it if you posted your wincon, since we can be pretty sure it's not "kill the evil role" and I posted mine. That goes for everyone, in fact—anyone who doesn't is pretty blatantly Prisoner's Dilemma-ing, and should probably be lynched for it. (might need to explain my logic here, but I'm getting pretty sleepy—if people aren't getting what I mean, I'll explain it tomorrow)

Why didn't you clone Starver?

Because I didn't have as strong a town read on him.

[Elephant Parade]

EBWOP: the first quote/response is a repeat. When you're sick, 8 PM is like 11 PM.

[hector13]

Elephant Parade

EP: who did you target, man?

I targeted you, since I can do so without dooming us to suffer a paradox.

What makes you say that?

And also, Shakerag is not in the game no more.

Oh, so he vanished when he caused the paradox? That's good to know.

He said he had a power to remove himself from the game, though given your assertion you cloned him as TDS, and TDS' flip doesn't contain that particular power, I'm not so sure.

Though again, he did say he received that power N1...

I think we should lynch you, since all this adding of people just makes a paradox more likely.

Well... I'd say I'd just not use it, but I can't—to win, I need to have used it at the end of the game, and it looks like it refreshes whenever we fly back to D0 (it's a one-shot). Can I just keep cloning you forever, or will even that cause problems?

You tell us.

I'd appreciate it if you posted your wincon, since we can be pretty sure it's not "kill the evil role" and I posted mine. That goes for everyone, in fact—anyone who doesn't is pretty blatantly Prisoner's Dilemma-ing, and should probably be lynched for it. (might need to explain my logic here, but I'm getting pretty sleepy—if people aren't getting what I mean, I'll explain it tomorrow)

Nonsense. Anyone can make up a wincon.

We should lynch you because you need to use your power, which clones people. The more people there are, the more likely there is to be a paradox, and I don't think we want that. I can still cause a paradox (or at least a paradox can be caused when my power activates) so I'd rather not be cloned at all.

Why didn't you clone Starver?

Because I didn't have as strong a town read on him.

Implying you have a town read on me. Do provide quotes for such an assertion, and perhaps some which make Starver look less than ideal.

[FallacyofUrist]

Hello, hello!

First up. I cause a paradox if I don't win. Is that the same for everybody?

Secondly, my win condition is to have the lynches be the same as the ones while TheDarkStar was alive.

So...

Unless anybody has any objections... No Lynch.

[TheBiggerFish]

Huh.

[Elephant Parade]

Huh.

much useful

very information

wow

(PFP — class in twenty minutes, and responding to hector's post might take more than that; I just felt like complaining about this post because having to scroll past zero-information posts annoys me)

[Starver]

Had to spend some time on this problem. Really want more, but I need to make sure I'm not too wrong, so...

I don't get some things, I think I get others. When I saw TDS somehow winning the Jester Race, I Fixed things for Shak (I think, if it works that way) because I don't see any mention of Paradox happening (unless that's not publicly announced), which is what Shak thought would happen if they didn't win, thanks to TDS's hijack.

TDS, BTW had a Vote Nullifier (as claimed by Shak, so I don't believe Shak was pre-counter-claiming the same sort of thing totally by accident, it must have been true enough) and yet it appears that became a Vote Redirecter, so why that didn't appear on the Jesus flip.

Now Fallacy claims to be "as TDS", but EP claims to have cloned Hector, so it's either not EP that created TDS/Shak from Fish and Vishdafish is the Hector-clone (not heard about that) or it's a third-party/game-mechanic thing that ensures one Fish-clone, and EP only accidentally added to the Fish-clone-clan, N1.


Anyway, Hector's repeat-a-day thing (someone's doing that, I'm believing Hector about that, though we haven't reached D3 yet) seems to be happening.

Fish...  The only thing we 'know' about Fish is that he's the prototype for the many and various Jesters (presumably not a Jester himself, then...  because Fish needs to be alive to really Win?) and I can't see much else in that role.  Also, very quiet and one-wordy. (Meta: is also being that on non-game threads, could be indicative of Real Life issues or a massive meta-game bluff.)

Myself, I think I'm confident I can fix things, but if I don't risk being lynched by the one who doesn't want me to fix things, I can't realistically then come back tomorrow/later and believably prove any further successes of action.

EP the cloner...  I believe in theory, but that (like Fish, or even Hector, or even me if I look at myself from your PsOV) might just as easily be the skill the Paradox-causer needs.


I think if we lynch those 'transients' who claim Jester, and I correctly cover any alternative Paradoxees that pop up, we can probably avoid problems, but only while we're not outsmarted by the bad guy.  But with repeating days (courtesy of Hector, although Hector's claimed repeat-day may not yet have even happened), this surely means that rather than the Bad Guy running out of time to succeed, we run out of time to not fail.  Something needs to jolt this stuck record, and let us come to a Town-Win ending...  I'm tempted to stop Hector (but not so sure, and now with a Hector-clone in play, may not help), then perhaps Fish (source of Paradoxees) and EP's cloning is not far behind in my mind. But the smallest of facts might change my mind, and I'm actually rather willing to see another repeat happen to check my protective skill is as I think.

Riskier: we get Fallacy out straight away by Lynch, I fix it so that Fallacy not winning (because of no NoLynch today, D1) isn't a Paradox and then I know I'm doing it right. But I'm not sure that won't equally well be instant failure...  So dare we do that?

[TheBiggerFish]

I'm slightly worried about this because I still don't know how I'm supposed to win.

[Elephant Parade]

I'm slightly worried about this because I still don't know how I'm supposed to win.

Do you have a wincon?

[TheBiggerFish]

Yes, but it's not got all the information I need to know when.

[hector13]

Riskier: we get Fallacy out straight away by Lynch, I fix it so that Fallacy not winning (because of no NoLynch today, D1) isn't a Paradox and then I know I'm doing it right. But I'm not sure that won't equally well be instant failure...  So dare we do that?

Or we get rid of EP, eliminating having more people added, you fix the paradox from having a lynch on D1, we lynch Fallacy on D2 to avoid paradox and D3 will repeat again from my power.

[Starver]

Yes, but it's not got all the information I need to know when.

I think you are the template.  You aren't there to 'win', you're there to create entities that make us lose. Willingly or no.

Toss up whether Big Bad or Town Weak (actually or effectively). Would depend on others able to keep you and your progeny in check (possibly that's my job) whilst we do rid ourselves of the Big Bad, if it isn't you.  But it is a flimsy explanation, either way.  Not really a definite thing. Just a musing.

Which is why I rank the (regular) cast of suspects with you in the middle, Hector marginally at the forefront, EP marginally behind. All at distinctly less than 50% chance, of course, and corresponding risk of instead removing a positive influence.

I know EP is cloning and in the process creating 'problems', but doesn't explain every 'visiting player' we see (N1 action of EP granted additional skills, right, even as anothe Clone appeared?). EP could be actually useful in cloning the counter-measure as much as the problematic.

Why didn't you clone Starver?

...not sure that would help. Not even sure Hector's intentions are wholly honourable, as said, and may know something I don't, but it had occured to me before that was said.  Not enough information, though. Caution, perhaps. Assuming cloning Hector hasn't already doomed things.

[TheBiggerFish]

My role literally just says Special.

[TheBiggerFish]

In green, but just Special.

Like, it doesn't say Town Special.

So actually that'd make sense if I actually actively did anything.

[TheBiggerFish]

Argh, WTF, Tomasque.

Retracting earlier statement, got a PM saying it was a typo just now.