Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[hector13]

Moonlit

Hector: I am not going to tell you my role because it will not help town. I am Town Weakness.

Well you just told us your alignment/archetype, which is a bit more important than your role name...

Anyway.

This is hugely suspicious... the only reason I'm not voting you is because you would've used your ability N1 if you were scum, and I don't think that there are 3 scum roles, so you would've died from FoU. You have a kill, and one that only works on humans. Admittedly, humans aren't always good in Undertale, because it's not humans vs monsters.

You seem to accept FoU's role, and that he acted on Starver N1, so why do you think FoU is scum?

FoU

Hector, Starver: Please state your cases against each other, preferably in 3 sentences each or less. For my sake. Also, I will unvote Hector for the moment.

Starver is indulging in a fair amount of confirmation bias, in that he is not particularly interested in questioning you or Moonlit, and is entirely convinced that I'm scum without considering any information that suggests otherwise.

I'll address his larger response later, seeing as how I'm having a pretty crap day and didn't sleep very well last night.

[Starver]

...without considering any information that suggests otherwise.

There's none that I've seen, but if I've missed it I'll be pleased to have it explained to me.  (By someone else, please, so that I don't potentially get a Scum spinning things for me.)

[hector13]

...without considering any information that suggests otherwise.

There's none that I've seen, but if I've missed it I'll be pleased to have it explained to me.  (By someone else, please, so that I don't potentially get a Scum spinning things for me.)

Alright, I won't defend myself against any of your claims then.

[Starver]

Alright, I won't defend myself against any of your claims then.

(You haven't so far, SFAICT.  Save for the Chara-claim bit, which has already been covered by someone else.)

[Starver]

Oh hey!  We're bickering!  Just like those two guys from the last round...

[hector13]

Funny thing about those two guys.

Funny thing about that guy who tried to talk sense into them, too.

[hector13]

Alright, I won't defend myself against any of your claims then.

(You haven't so far, SFAICT.  Save for the Chara-claim bit, which has already been covered by someone else.)

It's things like this that make me think you don't care about any situation in which I'm not scum. Did you just completely ignore everything I've said?

[hector13]

Response to Starver

I don't need to explain myself to you @Hector, because it's other people who I need to convince (rightly or wrongly; correctly, incorrectly or even as a diversion), but for the sake of openness I will do anyway.

Indeed, but you owe it to yourself to at least consider that I'm not scum. If you're default position is to not respond to anything I say, how do you expect to be convinced I'm not scum? Nobody else is going to defend me, are they? They're in the same boat as I am: they don't know who is what alignment.

Last point first: Originally I thought you were correctly claiming Chara (before retracting), and that was part of my original assessment.
Now I know think your replacement claim is either correct (the character who is notoriously bloodthirsty, a SOUL stealer, teams up with humans, one of whom is known to be Evil, etc, etc, etc) or else it is yet another fakeclaim, in which case ^whoknows?...

Asriel is actually convinced by Chara to absorb Chara's soul and then go out to kill 6 more humans to break the barrier to the Underground so... I'm not sure where you're getting notoriously bloodythirsty soul stealer from.

Which one do you think it is? Fakeclaim or genuine?

As for 'no read', I've done it myself (for various reasons), and I'll do it again no doubt and your sense of "Oi! I don't like all these questions!" goes far enough to appear to want to suppress all enquiry.  Not to a sensible amount¹, but in a general refusal to partake in a democratic sharing of information.  Given how little information I had given out, myself, and yet had at least tried to join in (external actions aside), your trying to suppress all current/future discussions of this sort looks more like a motive.

But you're the only person allowed to scum-read, naturally, by listening to what information we spill. And I've now spilled far more information than should be necessary.

And I was doing a lot of 'scum-reading', whilst Scum myself, last round.  Not everything I thought (or 'thought up') was said out loud, but I had a whole lot of 'reading' on why it was... Moonlit, I think... who I 'thought' was the more likely villain on the Spaceship.  And barely anyone read me at all!  I even nearly replied to one too-casual mention by yourself that it was possible that I was Evil... I even saved the post I never actually ended up posting...

So you're scum reading me based off your meta now?

Where have I stated I don't want any discussion in this round? When have I withheld information? It's all well and good telling us this is what I said, but without evidence, it's just some more hot air.

You're the one that doesn't like to share. "Spilled more information than should be necessary" aye? I think everyone else gets to be the judge of when you've shared enough information.

You also can't (by open game knowledge) say that Moonlit's not Evil because of the lynch-replace.  The first lynch-replace created an Evil role.  My own best guess, Night 2, was that the second lynch-replace would do something similar.  I could be wrong about the non-Evilness - but I know I'm not wrong about this one not being Human...

The first lynch-replace created a Neutral role, actually, but you do have a point here. I'm not sure about humans being exclusively evil here, though. Chara is a bad human, while the human you play as during the game can be good, neutral, or evil. Assuming all humans are bad is not a good thing to do, methinks.

Moonlit claimed he was the Evil role prior to the lynch-wipe, so it's not inconceivable that his role was replaced with an Evil one, since the game hasn't ended yet.

He has been quite forthcoming with having been the Evil role prior the the lynch, and it wouldn't be very fair to the town to not be getting flips from lynches and then have an Evil role in the replacement pool, especially with a three day limit, so I'm inclined to think Moonlit is not Evil at this point.

How does Moonlit's claim to have performed the NK and confirmed my role as Asriel fit into Starver's narrative that I'm obvscum?

Your being confirmed as Asriel doesn't even help your own case.  It hurts it.  At least for me, from what little I do know of the Lore - should Lore actually count for anything.

You should read the wiki some more then... Asriel is good and bad for various reasons throughout the game, depending on what happens.

But you're also moreobvthananyoneelsescum because of other things.

How helpfully vague.

[Starver]

But you're also moreobvthananyoneelsescum because of other things.

How helpfully vague.

Sorry, that should have been "because of the other things".  The other things already stated.

Also, a second editing error in writing was that I meant to say lynch one created a human, with no reason not to assume something similar for the second, not an Evil-one.  But, to re-iterate, it also is not inconceivable that an Evil character was created as Moonlit's replacement role, but the chances of that are utterly disconnected with the reality of Moonlit's original character (neither positively or negatively correlated), because the replacement-queue is the pre-arranged one.  That's why I'm giving it zero weighting in my considerations.  It neither exonerates claimed-previously-Evil Moonlit from current Evilness, nor removes them.

Other than that, what I say stands and there's no point repeating what I've said again to answer anything else you think you've asked me again, or making the other comment I really want to make but will leave until the end of the round.



General comment and thoughts... (aimed at anyone who wants to read them, probably not useful for working anything out, but I feel better for saying something about them)

Second-guessing potential Mod setups (without a better knowledge of the various possible options actually in play, that would narrow things down to merely confusing, rather than very confusing), I actually would have considered putting a replacement-Evil character in the first replacement (in case of Evil lynch, D1), unless that unbalanced something else.  It seems that was not done.

Perhaps the more flexible technique would be a Secret Auto given to one (or more) characters, as per the Politician's "If the Captain dies first, you inherit all his abilities.", but tied to make someone alignment-switching to Evil once a given predecessor goes out of play.  Or make it a Secret Dying Auto of the original Evil to pass-on the alignment/status from the original Evil.  That wouldn't rule out anyone still in the game from now being Evil, starting (properly) as of Night 2, although I would expect the new incumbent to be informed of this change, or else it'll be even more Bastard than a Deathmiller-type misleading roleflip would have been.

[hector13]

@Hector: I think that a duo is unlikely, so if Starver was lying and scum then FoU would be not-scum and thus telling the truth.

I... don't quite understand what you're trying to say, but I did just get up.

[FallacyofUrist]

By the way, apparently this day has no deadline... right? I didn't see it in the day's opening post...

[hector13]

We all need to agree on who to lynch.

Seems rather likely to happen...

So, we know why Starver and I are voting for one another, why are you, FoU, not voting anyone?

Why are you, Moonlit, voting FoU?

[FallacyofUrist]

So, we know why Starver and I are voting for one another, why are you, FoU, not voting anyone?

Confusion and fan fiction.
And now, because I want to get this question answered:

Tomasque: as far as I've noticed, there's no set deadline for today's end. Are hammers active?

[Tomasque]

Tomasque: as far as I've noticed, there's no set deadline for today's end. Are hammers active?

Yes.

[FallacyofUrist]

@Hector: I think he's scum.

Well obviously you do, otherwise you wouldn't be voting me. The question is, why do you think I'm scum?
~~~
Issue here: If I'm correct, we need 3 players to be voting one player in order to lynch them.
Which basically means that in order to get the Evil role lynched, we're also going to need to convince Moonlit to vote with me, instead of for me...