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[hector13]

You're assuming that the bomb or the gun didn't originate with the scum, and/or has no immunity to one or the other.

Not a good idea.

[hector13]

How else are can we kill scum?

That's not what I meant, because that would be silly.

There is one scum, while we have seen (potentially) three separate actions be used: guns and bombs and blackmail.

I don't think it makes sense for one role to be providing all three things, so it stands to reason that if one of them originated from scum, the others originated from town or neutral roles.

FoU seems adamant that the blackmail comes from the scum, which is bothersome since, you know, a bomb or a gun could be just as likely, statistically speaking.

Indeed, he's twice as likely to be wrong - choosing at random - than he would be to be correct. He doesn't strike me as one to jump to conclusions with so little information (at least that we know of)

If the scum is generating one of these things, it stands to reason they'd be immune to it too. Why give someone a gun/bomb if they might kill you with it? Though this might be me being overly cautious.

[TheBiggerFish]

AFAIK, it's a timed detonation only.

[TheBiggerFish]

Yes, and the key modifier is 'timed'.

[FallacyofUrist]

The Situation:
TheBiggerFish claims to have a bomb and claims to be able to investigate for items.
Starver claims to have a gun.
The Moonlit Shadow claims nothing.
Same for Hector.
FallacyofUrist(yay me) claims: entire role.

In any case, the day won't end until Starver shoots somebody.
This might take a while.

[hector13]

Clearly you've been paying attention to goings on.

Why do you want to get shot so bad

[FallacyofUrist]

I don't want to get shot until I dispose of the bomb!
And after that... I want to get shot so the town will see my role flip, giving more solid proof for the fact that the scum wins by having everybody blackmailed.

[hector13]

So you, as town, want the town to kill you and - in doing so - not kill scum? How does this help achieve your wincon?

[FallacyofUrist]

For the scum, it won't help him win or lose if I'm dead. Me being alive has no difference to his/her wincon.
Once I'm dead, everybody will see my role flip, providing verified evidence to everybody about my theory that the scum wins by blackmailing everybody is correct.

If being able to use me to dispose of items is more valuable than that to town, I'm fine with staying alive.

[hector13]

For the scum, it won't help him win or lose if I'm dead. Me being alive has no difference to his/her wincon.
Once I'm dead, everybody will see my role flip, providing verified evidence to everybody about my theory that the scum wins by blackmailing everybody is correct.

If being able to use me to dispose of items is more valuable than that to town, I'm fine with staying alive.

... has the blackmail actually worked on you?

[FallacyofUrist]

... for your information, no.
Of course, if it worked like that, and it actually did work on me, I wouldn't tell you.
... I finally got invisible text working. Hooray for me.

[Starver]

Starver claims to have a gun.
The Moonlit Shadow claims nothing.

I'm fairly sure you should swap those two round, at least as far as this reductionist summary goes.  I've got no control over today's day-end, if that's what it now is...

(And I'm not sure about your whole claim.  For all we know, you're a mad bomber, in search of a bomb.  And blackmail-proof because you're just mad!?!  ...benefit of doubt, right now, but with a niggling feeling.)

[Starver]

The gun might only be fired a single time. If that's the case, then how would the other two days end?

Multiple (one shot?) guns might potentially be on their way, one per day (or, perhaps, night-preceding-the-day).  Also bombs and blackmails.

Although I still find myself wondering what 'anti-jamming' mechanism this round's mechanics have, in the event that the round-ending gun gets 'eaten' by the assumed 'universal defuser' character.  You might know (possessing the gun), but you also may not be keen to let on.  The armourer might know (unless it's a Secret condition to the role), but likewise.

Maybe the armourer (being 'otherwise noted' in private as capable of multiple night actions, to be the sender of both weapons, even if not all known 'gifts') was forced to send his presents to different people, with the caveat that the bomb immediately explodes if the gun ceases to be useful.  (Not sure how that would be represented in flavour.)  Maybe guns just never get binned, as being of no perceived threat to the recipient so is used as intended even by a 'binner'.

On the other hand, no day end time in the Day post...

Not unknown, previously, as a mistake; although it had been corrected (and announced separately) on the other occasions that the mod 'forgot' to say.  In this instance, I'll go with the apparent Word Of God that it is deliberate (as per the requires-a-Hammer-to-end Day 3, previously).


I'm almost tempted to suggest we see if bullets can be auto-defused, to end the round.  There's the whole point of losing the role that potentially is the one that can save Town, but I'm also worried that a declared bulletproof (well, just blackmail/bomb-proof, in this case, as far as I'm aware) Townie should have remained unknown and able to quietly 'soak it up' rather than declare "Go on, try it on everyone else, because I am immune! Mwuhahaha!!!".

Or then there's the person gleefully declaring that they've got a bomb, right off the bat.  If I didn't vastly respect Fish as a player, I'd say it was a rookie mistake to faux-declare something like that to gambit an 'established' innocence (and possibly even "it's not my fault!" should they have ended being later discovered as a perpetrator of a bomb-outrage).  There's got to be more to that story, but I wouldn't yet like to say who could be the one to give that information.

i.e., unless someone feels capable of adding more information, I think we're stuck and are left with the need to do something random to generate some new info.  I'm not sure how else to walk this issue through...

[Tomasque]

@Tomasque: There's still a day end, right?

Not set to a certain time, no.

[Starver]

Since I don't think they can, it's probably Hector or Starver. There's the possibility that Fallacy is a secret Armorer, as well as throwing away anything given to him.

Come to that, the only thing stopping Fallacy from being the armourer is that (apparently) he (eventually!) discovered that the gun landed in your lap, because of some differing night-skill.  But then the armourer would know that, although not know whether to admit knowing that, straight off...  Giving the bomb to himself (assuming there even is one, but it's a weird claim to invent, unless it's was to 'get the counter-claim in first') might or might not then be a function of the same role, either having to be in the "unless noted" camp as a double-action, or is not even something done last night (the creation of the initial bomb), but is just figuratively set up as the alibi for tonight's action when the bomb will be created and sent (instead of the gun) on a shorter fuse to a 'probably deserving target' then the "I have to pass it on" version.

But there's probably too many ifs in that scenario.  I'm reliving my paranoia character, again, it seems.  (No, I'm not exactly the same as last round, before you ask.  Not that I'm sure I'd have told you if I were, obviously, or that you'd believe me either way, but just thought I'd forestall that before it happens.)


Still, even if we accept some things at face value (I don't, right this moment, doubt the existence of the gun, as that's the sanest, most corroborated and least ambiguous part of the scenario as I think I know it!), the bomb could easily have come from the guy who received a gun, the gun could have easily come from the guy who received a bomb, alternately either of those could have come any of the rest of us (I can't think of a way of proving I'm not the armourer, although someone else might have their own way of finding such a thing out tonight/whenever), and the blackmail (again, assuming it exists) could have come from anybody but the person who I think claims to have received it and neutralised it, but who knows..?

So, are we any closer to a solution?  The only thing I would openly believe in is the gun, and I could still be wrong about that...