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Author Topic: Mafia Marathon  (Read 231530 times)

hector13

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Re: Mafia Marathon (Semi-bastard) Round 5
« Reply #495 on: February 25, 2016, 07:18:31 pm »

I don't understand why you're quoting that. See here for details.

Does it tell us anything useful, is my point. What about it is useful?
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Look, we need to raise a psychopath who will murder God, we have no time to be spending on cooking.

the way your fingertips plant meaningless soliloquies makes me think you are the true evil among us.

Starver

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Re: Mafia Marathon (Semi-bastard) Round 5
« Reply #496 on: February 25, 2016, 07:19:12 pm »

Starver, if you have an investigator role, do tell us now, please.
I am not a Town Investigator, but I can give (and have given, whether or not you realise it) actual information useful to town.  I shall say it again: I am necessarily withholding the nature/source of this information from town because it would also mean revealing information to everyone, including scum, that would not help me and might well disadvantage Town.  I have already lost an advantage, maybe by saying as much as I have, but there's nothing I can do about reversing the associated harm and it's all out of my hands and down to you all to deal with it instead.

I'm confident that there's more than just me (and scum) who is not saying everything they know. I'm just being pragmatically open about it.

I say you all throw your dice (if you're not already happy with how they're currently cast), and come back and mark my words after the final reveal.  You'll kick yourselves for not believing me.  As I'll probably kick myself, when I perhaps discover one particular fact that I have yet to even understand that I must uncover, lest you believe I'm also subject to hubris.
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Mafia Marathon (Semi-bastard) Round 5
« Reply #497 on: February 25, 2016, 07:24:12 pm »

Does it tell us anything useful, is my point. What about it is useful?
Whoever I ended up inspecting([sarcasm]thank you for that uncertainty[/sarcasm]) doesn't have a modified(beyond what's normal) win condition. It's all about truth and lies.

I am Neutral.
...
so we have two Neutral claims. It's possible(recall Round 3) for both to be true... but is it?
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FoU has some twisted role ideas. Screw second-guessing this mechanical garbage spaghetti, I'm basing everything on reads and visible daytime behaviour.

Would you like to play a game of Mafia? The subforum is always open to new players.

hector13

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Re: Mafia Marathon (Semi-bastard) Round 5
« Reply #498 on: February 25, 2016, 07:25:08 pm »

Ninja's stop it.

1. I need TBF to win. TBF explicitly needs the Evil role to win. It was mentioned in your post just before it. 2. a) Yep. Exactly. b) Why? Your main reason for voting me, if I recall, is that I'm not helpful. With my wincon, I'm not the most helpful to town, but then again I am Neutral. You seem like a Town Weakness, as your role with hurt as often as it helps. That's another reason I'm not voting you. c) You are right, of course.

Okay. This is assuming you're being honest...

FoU, what say you? I'd prefer to lynch Starver, particularly given this analysis; you make that difficult.

PPE: There are five people and four role archetypes. Do the maths :P
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Look, we need to raise a psychopath who will murder God, we have no time to be spending on cooking.

the way your fingertips plant meaningless soliloquies makes me think you are the true evil among us.

Starver

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Re: Mafia Marathon (Semi-bastard) Round 5
« Reply #499 on: February 25, 2016, 07:34:23 pm »

so we have two Neutral claims. It's possible(recall Round 3) for both to be true... but is it?
And round 4.

(Round 3, four players: two Specials, no Neutrals/Weaks, one of everything else.)
(Round 4, five players: two Specials, no Neutral, one of everything else.)
(Round 5, five players: ? ? ? ...to be revealed, but something will be hokey!)
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Mafia Marathon (Semi-bastard) Round 5
« Reply #500 on: February 25, 2016, 07:42:14 pm »

That too. One archetype may be duplicated, either that or we'll have all five archetypes, or we'll have three of one or some other combination-
Which is to say, it's possible for there to be two of one archetype, so I can't debunk TMS' claim based on that.

Arg this is a headache.
~~~
Now, you know I'd prefer to lynch you, as your role claim does not fit what we have claimed, nor does it benefit the town. And for all I know, it could be a fake claim meant to make me distrust my result.
Now, I'll presume a hypothetical scenario in which you cast some sort of reality warping voodoo that makes your lynch no longer possible.
In which case... Starver's hiding everything, TBF and TMS are much more transparent. But... consider TMS' claim, that he needs to have TBF alive to win. And TBF needs to shoot the scum. So TMS claiming to be TBF's guardian or whatnot could translate to "Don't get me! I'm a good guy! I'm protecting the guy that wants to assassinate the Evil role! Don't you see?". But TBF's claim could be him being a different type of Neutral role that does something else trying to avoid being lynched because he's good for town.
Heck... you look at TBF and TMS, the reasons both of them have for not being lynched is "I'm neutral, but my wincon is town comparable! Don't kill me and I'll help you out!"

So basically... TBF, TMS, and Starver are all asking for trust from the town. But Starver is asking for a lot more trust than TBF, and TBF is asking for more trust than TMS.
So let's go payoffs. What does town lose from eliminating a protector? The lack of protection- which... we're not trying to slow this down- the scum can use their mark(assuming that's what they do) without fear of having it be prevented by a protection. But if a townie is marked(in my case for instance)... when one thinks about it... unless the mark can be self-targeting, we've basically got a confirmed townie for each mark hit. Assuming it can't self-target. So we don't lose as much from lynching TMS as we do from lynching TBF- TBF has an ability that can remove the scum from the equation alltogether(not necessarily resulting in a town win, however, consider that if it resulted in a town win, it would make some more sense for him to be a town player, maybe Town Weakness, because he has to hit the Evil role with his ability to win(consider the Librarian from Round 1)). But what do we lose from lynching Starver? We don't know. He could be scum gambitting, or he could be town telling the truth. He's the unknown variable in this equation. So if you weren't an option for lynching, I'd lynch TMS or Starver.

~~~
PPE: There are five people and four role archetypes. Do the maths :P
Evil, Neutral, Town Investigative, Town Special, Town Weakness. Five.
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FoU has some twisted role ideas. Screw second-guessing this mechanical garbage spaghetti, I'm basing everything on reads and visible daytime behaviour.

Would you like to play a game of Mafia? The subforum is always open to new players.

hector13

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Re: Mafia Marathon (Semi-bastard) Round 5
« Reply #501 on: February 25, 2016, 07:56:10 pm »

Town Weakness or Neutral.

I'd like to ask you how you think a protection role is useful to town, when that protection role needs someone specifically to live, and that particular someone isn't town.

How does my claim not fit what we've claimed? I specifically stated I was a Town Special earlier. I'm not like the librarian in the first round in that getting wet loses the game, I have an ability that is useful to town (which appears to be just you and me) in that it allows me to keep us from getting marked. This is all I can do, so I can't stop a lynch.

Nor can I stop you from dying to the mark, which is what is going to happen.

I'll change my vote to Starver, as that's who I want to actually see get lynched.

Question for everyone: Moonlit has claimed a protect ability, and a protect TBF wincon... does that not seem a bit OP? The only way TBF will die is through a lynch, since Moonlit is gonna protect TBF every night. No risk of the neutrals losing..?
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Look, we need to raise a psychopath who will murder God, we have no time to be spending on cooking.

the way your fingertips plant meaningless soliloquies makes me think you are the true evil among us.

FallacyofUrist

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Re: Mafia Marathon (Semi-bastard) Round 5
« Reply #502 on: February 25, 2016, 08:00:44 pm »

Moonlit has claimed a protect ability, and a protect TBF wincon... does that not seem a bit OP?
Actually, yes. The Moonlit Shadow. The last point made by hector13 pushed me over the edge.

I'd like to ask you how you think a protection role is useful to town, when that protection role needs someone specifically to live, and that particular someone isn't town.
Yeah. Assuming the protector isn't going to protect any town players, it's not useful at all to town.

The Moonlit Shadow: What do you protect against, in your knowledge?
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FoU has some twisted role ideas. Screw second-guessing this mechanical garbage spaghetti, I'm basing everything on reads and visible daytime behaviour.

Would you like to play a game of Mafia? The subforum is always open to new players.

hector13

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Re: Mafia Marathon (Semi-bastard) Round 5
« Reply #503 on: February 25, 2016, 08:06:00 pm »

I think you may be unlikely to get an answer to that, given it's <1 hour 'til day end, and Moonlit is offline.
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Look, we need to raise a psychopath who will murder God, we have no time to be spending on cooking.

the way your fingertips plant meaningless soliloquies makes me think you are the true evil among us.

Starver

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Re: Mafia Marathon (Semi-bastard) Round 5
« Reply #504 on: February 25, 2016, 08:06:42 pm »

Town Weakness or Neutral.
That's how it started, but who knows now.  (Actually, someone does have a decent chance of knowing something extra, IIRC.  I forget who.  I must check.)

Quote
Question for everyone: Moonlit has claimed a protect ability, and a protect TBF wincon... does that not seem a bit OP? The only way TBF will die is through a lynch, since Moonlit is gonna protect TBF every night. No risk of the neutrals losing..?
It'd be interesting to know (although I suspect even you don't have that information) if your ability, applied to TBF, would divert the presumed protection but then leave the way open for a presumed attack straight after.

I'll have to admit, though, I'd not even considered the ramification you've just pointed out.  But as this just enhances some of my feelings about the pairing, it's not me that needs to change my mind.
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TheBiggerFish

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Re: Mafia Marathon (Semi-bastard) Round 5
« Reply #505 on: February 25, 2016, 08:07:47 pm »

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Starver

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Re: Mafia Marathon (Semi-bastard) Round 5
« Reply #506 on: February 25, 2016, 08:10:19 pm »

(Actually, someone does have a decent chance of knowing something extra, IIRC.  I forget who.  I must check.)
...had a look.  That'd be TBF, if I properly understood something said in Round 4.
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TheBiggerFish

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Re: Mafia Marathon (Semi-bastard) Round 5
« Reply #507 on: February 25, 2016, 08:12:54 pm »

@Starver:I don't know what it is I'm supposed to know but I'm decently sure I don't know it.
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hector13

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Re: Mafia Marathon (Semi-bastard) Round 5
« Reply #508 on: February 25, 2016, 08:22:53 pm »

So we're all cool with FoU dying then?
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Look, we need to raise a psychopath who will murder God, we have no time to be spending on cooking.

the way your fingertips plant meaningless soliloquies makes me think you are the true evil among us.

TheBiggerFish

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Re: Mafia Marathon (Semi-bastard) Round 5
« Reply #509 on: February 25, 2016, 08:26:43 pm »

Argh.

I'm not cool with FoU dying.

So I guess that makes it up to me to break the tie.

Ergh.

The Moonlit Shadow...Reluctantly.
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