Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[hector13]

It's a trap.

My wincon hints heavily at FoU being the Evil role, but it's never stated, and I'm pretty sure he's not.

You were pretty sure he was a minute ago. What's changed? Why should we take stock of this sure thing when you're not sure about your last sure thing?

[TheBiggerFish]

What's changed is I actually read my role this time, and there are two dreams it mentions with specific sets of adjectives.  Oh, and Fallacy's theory makes sense, especially with last round.

hector13, claim.

[hector13]

No.

[TheBiggerFish]

Why not?

[hector13]

I gave a reason earlier. I see no way how a mass claim at this point helps anyone other than the Evil role, too.

[TheBiggerFish]

There's already 3/5ths of a massclaim, practically.

So basically, it's either you or EP.  Or Starver, but I doubt they'd go to that much effort to encode a hidden message into bad poetry just for a fakeclaim they can't know would be substantiated.

[hector13]

So your compelling reason for me to claim is "everyone else has done it"?

How is it either me or EP? You've presented no evidence of this, other than your flavour, known only to you. You were sure it was FoU before and then second guessed yourself. I have no reason to believe you're right this time and you're wrong about FoU.

Take a look at FoU's claim, then tell me why I shouldn't vote for him.

[TheBiggerFish]

FoU's wincon is survivor, as stated in his claim, and in my copy of his role.  And my flavor is not only known to me, as Starver has an independent copy of my role (or so I would presume), although differing in flavor aspects, that matches mine in crunch - and I know someone else knew FoU's role at start, which was confirmed by his post.

[hector13]

How do you know his role is survivor? Do you even know your role?

[hector13]

It's a trap.

My wincon hints heavily at FoU being the Evil role, but it's never stated, and I'm pretty sure he's not.

Starver, reread your role.

There seem to be two separate dreams mentioned in mine - 'evil' vs. 'powerful'.  Check that.

Also, *implies heavily, not hints.

While I am hugely suspicious of your motives right now, and feel you're dangling some obvious bait here, perhaps it would be wise to provide us with the  following:

The flavour that is referring to "evil" vs. "powerful".

Why you think the aforementioned are separate things, or otherwise do not refer to the same thing.

Why all that leads you to believe FoU is not the Evil role, despite allegedly being told he is, backed up by Starver's claim, and FoU confirming.

[TheBiggerFish]

How do you know his role is survivor? Do you even know your role?

I have a copy of his role.  Like I said.
And yes, I know my role, I just didn't read it carefully to begin with.

I'd rather not.

Because...They're referred to differently?  And my wincon is positioned in such a way that I could lop off everything about the 'powerful' dream and still have a valid role.

FoU's wincon is a survivor wincon.

Rolenames are weird this round.

Starver claimed nothing about FoU's alignment, just that FoU was the Minotaur.

FoU didn't confirm they were evil, they claimed Survivor.

...

FoU:What's your take on all of this?

[Starver]

Summary of own role, sentence by sentence (with commentary)...

Power of dreams.
Can recognise nightmares.
An evil dream becoming its dreamer's master.
Must destroy it (Wincon?)
My dream can find that dream.
Thus I can find it.
My rolename.
~~~
I find a dream (automatically, it seems) not like the rest (conceivably different from the above?).
Savage, powerful.
It does not see me (?) but I see it verbatim.

The person's dream.
Yearning to be free.
Rage becomes their own. (Not exactly promising!)
No longer chained to the mind.
Now, you can finally stalk the halls of the labyrinth until the end of time! (Survivor Wincon?)
You are the MINOTAUR! (Literal, so if not just a huge mod-distraction then pretty damning.
~~~
Desire to kill(!)
Can kill once but with dire consequences. (Survivor protective mechanism? Well, already gave that away, anyway.)
Best to save.
(But nothing in this, presumed snippet, suggested any 'night' action other than the one not yet used.)

That was FoU (explicitly) but another saw this (Fish, by claim).
They saw this too but you don't know who this was (Fish does seemsto be proven to be this, though it was a long time in coming...)
Neither can match the beast. (Assuming we still want to..?).
We (individually? Together, even..?) cannot kill it.
(End-note, no explicit actions or autos or whatever...)

So...  unvote with relief more because I'm sure that the lynch won't work than because our target should not be Fallacy. Although there's that possibility.

New worst case is that Fallacy is the best defence against A.N.Other and we've spotlit them.  Leaving me with the conclusion that if nobody does a better job than Fish at proving themselves truly kindred dream-discoverers, Fish is definitely allied and Fallacy is tentatively independent without necessarily being dangerous. Hector and EP, then...  *ponders*

[hector13]

How do you know his role is survivor? Do you even know your role?

I have a copy of his role.  Like I said.
And yes, I know my role, I just didn't read it carefully to begin with.

I'd rather not.

Because...They're referred to differently?  And my wincon is positioned in such a way that I could lop off everything about the 'powerful' dream and still have a valid role.

FoU's wincon is a survivor wincon.

Miscommunication. I meant alignment, not role. Do you know your alignment as well as FoU's?

FoU didn't confirm they were evil, they claimed Survivor.

I don't even. There isn't even anything for me to argue against. No day game arguments. Nothing. I've got nothing.

Y'know what? No.

Rhetorical flourish. Fancy, but contentless.

Yes, I'm the Minotaur. Yes, my name's red. But my win condition, I realize, doesn't require you to die. I simply wish to stalk the labyrinth until time ceases. I'm a survivor.

Claim's the name is red. For 100% of the games so far, the Evil role has been in red.

Then who is the actual evil role? Or, True Evil, methinks? Some kind of dream creature. Y'see, I don't think I was originally the minotaur. Something caused a change. Some kind of dream creature that released my subconscious into my conscious, based on my flavor.

Deflection. "oh of course it looks like I'm the Evil role, but last round there was an Evil role and a True Evil role! So even if I am Evil, I'm not the Evil, amirite?"

A True Evil role who turned us all into monsters. Let's get claiming.

Role-fishing, and hopeful speculation. Does anyone else have a monster as their flavour? I don't.

¡Muy importante!

I am the Minotaur. I wish to stalk the maze till time ends. I may release my human disguise in order to kill someone, though I will be revealed as the Minotaur then.

A survivor claim with these abilities does not make sense. A survivor merely has to live 'til the end. If they have a disguise - which presumably will make them appear town or benign or whatever - why would they willingly give it up to perform an action that has nothing to do with their wincon?

¡Muy importante!

FoU:What's your take on all of this?

Why are you asking FoU about it? We know what FoU thinks about it, and even if we didn't, I'm quite certain he's not going to say "yeah, fair cop, lynch me" is he?

[TheBiggerFish]

And this round there were rolenames in bold (underline?) Times New Roman that wasn't green.

If Tomasque broke that pattern, why not break this one?

I don't think we even have true alignments, except inasmuch anti-'evil dream' is Town-analogue.

No, it's 'my wincon actually reads like a Survivor', which it does.


Ah ah ah, but the Town not being able to kill the Evil role, that does mean somebody has to have a kill that isn't Town.  And FoU's the perfect spot to put it.

Starver:If you have an investigative role, it would be a good idea to use it.

[hector13]

And this round there were rolenames in bold (underline?) Times New Roman that wasn't green.

If Tomasque broke that pattern, why not break this one?

Pointless speculation. Why base an argument on whether or not to lynch someone on something that can't be proven during the course of the game?

I don't think we even have true alignments, except inasmuch anti-'evil dream' is Town-analogue.

Then why are you arguing that FoU is a survivor? If he's a survivor analogue, then he's not Town analogue.

No, it's 'my wincon actually reads like a Survivor', which it does.

Ah ah ah, but the Town not being able to kill the Evil role, that does mean somebody has to have a kill that isn't Town.  And FoU's the perfect spot to put it.

These are mutually exclusive conditions. A survivor is a third-party, and therefore has no reason to help town. If you insist on using this argument, then we would in fact benefit from FoU's death. A third-party very rarely wins on their own, and the meta-game for MM is essentially points collecting. If the Evil role wins, that's only one person FoU would have to share the points with in the end.

Furher, you appear to be assuming FoU is the key to town winning, despite the survivor claim. It seems a bit unfair on Town having a third-party that has no vested interest in a Town victory being the key to a Town victory, don't you think?