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[MrRoboto75]

How do you know that person you banned has never been exposed to another viewpoint? You could have been the one to tell them that you don’t think it’s something to be “cured.” I mean this is based on the above that looked like there was just the one comment not a history of entrenched view.

If it was a comment in a pattern of comments sure don’t cast your pearls before swine. But if not… it’s better to give people benefit of the doubt.

I guess also you don’t have an obligation to do that… but technically nobody has an ovligation to anything so I don’t know what that buys you.

I don't think you realize how often they have to deal with stupid opinions like that and how often "fixing" them turns out to be a complete waste of time.

[jipehog]

Yep. Deaf people hurt nobody and it should be their choice for if to be cured or not.

How about blindness, dwarfism, and a host of other traits that threaten to limit the offspring in some manner. Does imagining a future with less barriers between us is necessarily a sentiment that comes from ignorance?

Btw iirc you imagine a communist world, do you have untoward abused planned for capitalist who will choose not to play?

[MrRoboto75]

Yeah but Picard was bald anyway.

[Frumple]

With rare exception, the only untoward abuse I've seen modern communists plan for capitalists that want to keep doing what they're currently doing, is to make sure they have a comfortable standard of living, with food, shelter, healthcare, community access, etc. easily available, and that they don't get to run around fucking everyone else's lives over anymore.

... which, if you listen to the heavily capitalist inclined, does seem to be some sort of unconscionable torture for folks really attached to being able to poison the local water table for profit or whatever, but I'd be surprised if they couldn't adjust to only having one house and reasonably priced food and no casual abuse heaped on poor people and whatnot, eventually. It's probably a livable condition, moreso than congenital defects inflicted on someone due to living in an area capitalist excesses plagued with coal pollution or generational poverty or whatev'.

[McTraveller]

I guess also you don’t have an obligation to do that… but technically nobody has an ovligation to anything so I don’t know what that buys you

I'm guessing you're trolling, but in case you are not, surely you realize the kind of absurd slipperu slope fallacy you just engaged in right?

Not trying to troll, I was aiming for reductio ad absurdum.  Basically there is no such thing as "obligation" in the first place; it's all social construct so you do have to be very careful when you throw around words like "obligation."  If you say you are not obliged to do something someone else wants, don't turn around and be angry that someone else doesn't do what you want.

That's why I prefer to use phrasing like "It's preferable to act kindly, so long as you are able, even if you don't feel like it" rather than "You're obliged to act kindly, regardless if you don't feel like it."

I mean, what good is it to treat people nicely, with whom you have no conflict? True character is treating strangers and yes even enemies kindly.  BUT - don't confuse "kindness" with "let them do whatever they want."  You can be kind to a thief, but you don't have to let them get away with thievery or help them commit crimes. You can be kind to someone who committed violence in your neighborhood, but you don't have to allow them to run free to commit more violence.  Hopefully that distinction is apparent...don't confuse forgiveness with trust is another way to think about it. I can forgive someone who cheated on their spouse, but I'm not going to trust them to remain faithful any more.

[heydude6]

Lets choose different example to avoid any knee jerks.  Deaf people have long fought against discrimination to have equal rights and access (something they lack in many countries). The Deaf culture doesn't believe in using the word 'disabled' because that word implies 'less than', in fact many deaf people consider themselves to be unique who distinguish themselves as a culture who see deaf as the new normal. That is a great victory for deaf people. However, it now pose an ethical question, what happens when deaf parents want a deaf child and ask to use vitro fertilization and embryo selection to guarantee it?

The questions you pose with your example fall into very murky ethical territory that is still debated to this day.

To show you how far away we are from contemplating something like this, let me give you an uncontroversial example. There is a genetic disease called Huntington’s that causes those born with the Huntington gene to suffer from a form of early dementia. Everyone agrees this is a bad thing, including the victims themselves.

We could use your exact same method to ensure a baby is never born with the Huntington gene again, but we as a society don’t do that because we are afraid of falling into the slippery slope of prenatal genetic modification. We are afraid that if we take this first step, then it will open the door to all sorts of baby eugenics including the removal of gay and autistic people.

The closest thing we have to this is allowing abortions for babies with Down’s syndrome, and even that is controversial. In our current society, your deaf family would be viewed as monsters for trying to do ANY tampering with their baby’s genetics.

With this info in mind, the question of “why haven’t they cured homosexuality in the future” has an answer that’s so bloody obvious that if the person asking that question genuinely wasn’t trolling I’d be seriously concerned by how badly they hit their head with the rock they live under. The question inherently endorses eugenics, and if an entire World War didn’t convince the guy that eugenics was bad, then I doubt Max would be able to.

The most likely scenario is that the guy knew Max was an LGBT author, and decided to annoy him with an “innocuous” question that completely ignores the fact that most modern sci-fi has gay people in it.

Edit: I wrote that last paragraph with American bigotry in mind, but I forgot Max lives in Russia. Russia is a whole different beast, where the LGBT are actually criminalized. I’m pretty sure the guy Max is talking about isn’t Russian cause otherwise I doubt he would be so brazen about his support for gay rights, but it reminded me of the ever important fact that the West isn’t the only region in the world, and I can’t assume my knowledge about how the west works is universally applicable. After all, we’re trying to reduce prejudice.

[ChairmanPoo]

. There is a genetic disease called Huntington’s that causes those born with the Huntington gene to suffer from a form of early dementia. Everyone agrees this is a bad thing, including the victims themselves.

We could use your exact same method to ensure a baby is never born with the Huntington gene again, but we as a society don’t do that because we are afraid of falling into the slippery slope of prenatal genetic modification

There are several things I disagree with in this paragraph.

- embryo selection totally does happen.

- genetic counseling totally does happen

- neither are related to prenatal genetic modification

[hector13]

I guess also you don’t have an obligation to do that… but technically nobody has an ovligation to anything so I don’t know what that buys you

I'm guessing you're trolling, but in case you are not, surely you realize the kind of absurd slipperu slope fallacy you just engaged in right?

Not trying to troll, I was aiming for reductio ad absurdum.  Basically there is no such thing as "obligation" in the first place; it's all social construct so you do have to be very careful when you throw around words like "obligation."  If you say you are not obliged to do something someone else wants, don't turn around and be angry that someone else doesn't do what you want.

That's why I prefer to use phrasing like "It's preferable to act kindly, so long as you are able, even if you don't feel like it" rather than "You're obliged to act kindly, regardless if you don't feel like it."

I mean, what good is it to treat people nicely, with whom you have no conflict? True character is treating strangers and yes even enemies kindly.  BUT - don't confuse "kindness" with "let them do whatever they want."  You can be kind to a thief, but you don't have to let them get away with thievery or help them commit crimes. You can be kind to someone who committed violence in your neighborhood, but you don't have to allow them to run free to commit more violence.  Hopefully that distinction is apparent...don't confuse forgiveness with trust is another way to think about it. I can forgive someone who cheated on their spouse, but I'm not going to trust them to remain faithful any more.

I mean… the first person anyone should be kind to is themselves. Refusing to engage with someone who is so willfully ignorant as to believe part of your identity is an illness is a step toward that.

[dragdeler]

Would I be petty enough to refund atomic heart? I got 109 minutes in and the last bit soured my mood so hard. Game wants to teach you parkour, doesn't mention the yellow ledges... Yes intuitively we hold on to ledges on walls to jump in the other direction of the wall in a world with midair dashes... How did I figure it out? I didn't no me I managed to dash that one single time straight ahead, when that was definitly not supposed to happen, the planned route is allready janky, this game did so not need jump puzzles with physics like that. Anyway since I did it once I thought it was supposed to be relatively repeatable. And everytime you climb up the yellow pipe the music rises in intensity in an annoying way, banging away before you even make the jump, while you're still in that slow climb. Ah and the one time I made the jump? I got killed by a stupid map hasard so quick that I only found out in the video that showed me the ledges. Oh and no quicksave so you better savour those jumping puzzles.

I was just starting to enjoy the game, and thought I had made it through the worse parts, I like a lot how they do exposition except when it's for toturial purposes, god I hated the upgrade vending machine so much, it wasn't that obvious that right click was the only way to interract with the menu at one particular point, and while I was clicking around and pushing keys (not even escape works once you picked an upgrade but didn't install it), I swear to god the vending machine did a solid 90 seconds of horny jokes really loud and annoyingly while my focus kept getting narrower and narrower trying to make it out of there quicker.

[MaxTheFox]

How do you know that person you banned has never been exposed to another viewpoint?

It's the internet, and they talked on a progressive(ish) server before. Beyond any reasonable doubt, they have. If they somehow didn't really consider it, well fuck them then I guess.

Yep. Deaf people hurt nobody and it should be their choice for if to be cured or not.

How about blindness, dwarfism, and a host of other traits that threaten to limit the offspring in some manner. Does imagining a future with less barriers between us is necessarily a sentiment that comes from ignorance?

Btw iirc you imagine a communist world, do you have untoward abused planned for capitalist who will choose not to play?

1. Those should also be choices. My setting has technology that would allow adults to be cured of all those, so not waiting until adulthood and then giving a choice is a violation of bodily autonomy. Things like Huntington's, sure. Cure them in-vitro. Nobody builds an identity out of having Huntington's. You can't live a fulfilling life with it. I don't really buy the slippery slope argument but I do draw a line.
2. Not really communist, but there is a wealth cap of 1 billion dollar-equivalents, I suppose if you refuse to pay then you get a 3-letter agency knocking on the door of your mansion. Otherwise nah, no harsh punishments.

-snip-

I am writing for a Western audience, honestly 80% sure he is American. (Also I am not a "him".)

[jipehog]

Lets choose different example to avoid any knee jerks.  Deaf people have long fought against discrimination to have equal rights and access (something they lack in many countries). The Deaf culture doesn't believe in using the word 'disabled' because that word implies 'less than', in fact many deaf people consider themselves to be unique who distinguish themselves as a culture who see deaf as the new normal. That is a great victory for deaf people. However, it now pose an ethical question, what happens when deaf parents want a deaf child and ask to use vitro fertilization and embryo selection to guarantee it?

The questions you pose with your example fall into very murky ethical territory that is still debated to this day.

It exist because there is always balance between individual rights and societal rules, and given a justifiable reason we may infringe upon individual freedoms that why it needs to be had. In this case though the principle of respect for autonomy suggest that parents should have the right to make reproductive choices based on their personal desires and values, I think that deafness is a disability that place the child in unique challenges and limitations.

But we digress, I think the point I wanted to make the other day is that if you do engage in conversation then more than kindness we also need to assume good faith. There always an argument to be made and different POVs, and most people are curious open to idea if you can ease them into it. Save yourself the aggravation or the chance you are tripped into the all to common teenager/insecurity bias of 'everyone are looking at me'.

[Great Order]

Keep missing Jitsu due to things happening, both in and out of my control.

Missed two sessions because I was getting my sleeping pattern under control again, so I was too tired to go. Next session I missed because I had to be on standby to pick someone up from the hospital which was completely unexpected, and I'm missing it today because I've got a killer headache and I'm feeling knackered.

[ChairmanPoo]

Those should also be choices. My setting has technology that would allow adults to be cured of all those, so not waiting until adulthood and then giving a choice is a violation of bodily autonomy. Things like Huntington's, sure. Cure them in-vitro

I presume you're not really saying that treating childhood blindness should be up to the parents to decide or not...

[jipehog]

Yep. Deaf people hurt nobody and it should be their choice for if to be cured or not.

How about blindness, dwarfism, and a host of other traits that threaten to limit the offspring in some manner. Does imagining a future with less barriers between us is necessarily a sentiment that comes from ignorance?

Btw iirc you imagine a communist world, do you have untoward abused planned for capitalist who will choose not to play?

1. Those should also be choices. My setting has technology that would allow adults to be cured of all those, so not waiting until adulthood and then giving a choice is a violation of bodily autonomy. Things like Huntington's, sure. Cure them in-vitro. Nobody builds an identity out of having Huntington's. You can't live a fulfilling life with it. I don't really buy the slippery slope argument but I do draw a line.
2. Not really communist, but there is a wealth cap of 1 billion dollar-equivalents, I suppose if you refuse to pay then you get a 3-letter agency knocking on the door of your mansion. Otherwise nah, no harsh punishments.

I disagree on blindness stuff but I don't want to argue the case.

As for original comment that started all of this, it is always a shitty move to piss on something someone is excited about and iirc from railgun thread you have an healthy take no shit attitude for such a case. As for your setting, you do you, I believe that the only thing that matter is the story.

[Frumple]

If there's one thing the last few months has reminded me of, it's that home repair/remodeling folks worth a damn don't operate in rural areas. It's just. It's just a rule, it's how this stuff works.

Like, I knew that, y'know? I've known it for years, family worked in the field at points in my life, etc. The folks that can actually do a good job are worth good money and pretty much always go where the good money is (i.e. not rural areas). But sweet blue fuck has the last while reminded me of that.

Today, plumberfellow -- earnest enough guy, experienced, good enough references, etc. -- tried to turn water back on after running some (badly needed, should have been done long ago) new pipe.

Two pipes burst, one of the water heaters (legacy feature of the house, it used to be part commercial and had a dedicated heater for part of it) put water on the floor full blast. One fairly large room half flooded, one of the bathrooms soaked from wall to wall, a hallway sopping end to end. Cleanup's not too bad, got fans/dehumidifier in the worst spots, it's whatever.

And I'm, just, like. This sucks, but it sucks like a hurricane does, yeah? It's just what happens in shitholes like these. This is rural construction, three months over schedule, unintentional holes in the ceiling, parts of the wall open for weeks, and half the house soaked. At least the roof proper doesn't seem to be leaking again, hahaha.