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[Mopsy]

Definitely not at the start of each turn. That would be a bit ridiculous, since it would mean some people would get to go twice without their opponent's being able to respond in turn.

That's true. I have some other ideas on how to reduce turn order effects, but I haven't developed them properly yet.

[Rolepgeek]

At the moment, we don't really need to; it just starts cycling turns after the first set. Only really matters for the first turn and maybe some events.

[Powder Miner]

i will post here at later today

[Tiruin]

Don't forget to deploy your armies everyone! (That includes you, Mopsy!)

All deployments are done by me at the start of the game. What are you proposing?

I think he means deploying your armies in response to someone else deploying theirs. Like, if someone doesn't put one on the border between you and you waited to deploy your armies until after they went so you could deploy yours there with the idea that they can't change their deployment to secure that now open border.

I meant exactly what Rolepgeek says. The players who move first already have an advantage when it comes to ganking their opponents, since they can receive additional armies, move into their neighbors' undefended border provinces and build fortifications there before the attacked players have a chance to do anything. I think it would benefit the game if the players who move first didn't get an opportunity to make their advantage even greater by making surprise deployments on the border.

An alternative to the above proposal is to not begin Turn 1 until all players have declared that they are satisfied with the current deployments.

In future EoD games, it might be interesting to try randomizing the turn order - either at the start of the game or at the start of each turn.

(EDIT: Clarification.)

Err, this is turn 0. As in the turn wherein you allocate where your armies start off (other than leaving 1 in the capital) so I think everything is set in place. I don't think Haspen allows SECRET DEPLOY PMs, by the way, and even if that does occur, there are such things as alliances and otherwise (and your capital can't be taken easily). With 'otherwise' being a public denouncement of this travesty, which is SOOOOO much more effective in player games than AI games.

Looking at you, Europa Universalis and any other of them games :I

[Mopsy]

Err, this is turn 0. As in the turn wherein you allocate where your armies start off (other than leaving 1 in the capital) so I think everything is set in place. I don't think Haspen allows SECRET DEPLOY PMs, by the way, and even if that does occur, there are such things as alliances and otherwise (and your capital can't be taken easily). With 'otherwise' being a public denouncement of this travesty, which is SOOOOO much more effective in player games than AI games.

I know that it's Turn 0. It's not necessary to use PMs, only to wait until the player you intend to attack has made a non-confrontational initial deployment, then quickly make your own aggressive deployment and hope that the GM picks up and processes the deployments before the attacked player has time to change their own deployment in response to yours.

The players who are early in the turn order already have a free advantage in their ability to make an immediate attack during Turn 1, before any fortifications are up. I don't think they should be able to make that advantage even greater through clever timing of their initial deployment. The potential diplomatic consequences of sneaky behavior are not a sufficient deterrent, in my opinion, since being successfully sneaky is a large part of the game.

[Haspen]

Also, what do you guys think about traits/techs increasing or decreasing the amount of treaties?

For example:

Code: [Select]

Mercantile (Cost: 1 or 2):
Your Nation can mantain up to 6 Research and Trade treaties total, instead of usual 4.

Isolationist (Cost: -1 or -2):
Your Nation can have only 2 Research and Trade treaties total, instead of usual 4.
Or as a tech, and while I don't have any solid idea which branch to put it in (Air services in Aeronautics? Trading fleet in Nautical??), it's a possibility.

Thoughts?

[Culise]

It's definitely a worthwhile idea, but one concern might be that if a tech that alters caps is too far into the tree, there might simply not be enough countries left at that point in the game to make the cap relevant. 

[Rolepgeek]

Seems fine to me. Cost 2 I would say, but I'm not certain of it.

[Sheb]

At least two, it's a significant bonus.

[Mopsy]

Also, what do you guys think about traits/techs increasing or decreasing the amount of treaties?

Good idea, it's something I've been considering as well. I think it makes more sense and is more useful as nation traits than as a tech. I'm not sure about cost. You could always start the traits off at +1/-2 points, to get people to try them out, and then make adjustments if they become overused.

At least two, it's a significant bonus.

Perhaps. It might be a good idea to increase the range of trait costs. The Militaristic/Pacifist traits should perhaps cost +3/-3 points, for example. Another interesting idea is to split those traits into separate traits for armies (Stormtroopers/Draft Dodgers) and fleets (Rules the Waves/Landlubbers).

[Sheb]

Actually, I'd split militaristic into "Offensive-minded" and "defensive-minded", and make them incompatible.

[Mopsy]

Like, granting +1/-1 and -1/+1 combat bonuses, respectively, and both costing +1 point (or even 0 points)? That's also interesting.

[Sheb]

I was just thinking of +1/0 and 0/+1 with a cost, but your idea is fun too.

[Mopsy]

It seems like treaty negotiations have ended, and every nation except the Representatives of France has made its initial deployment (if we may consider the draft SNARE deployment of March 13 final), so if Pencil_Art posts a deployment, we might be able to move on to Turn 1.

Or are people still conspiring via PM or busy IRL?

[Haspen]

Pencil_Art has 2 days to post deployment, and so others if they wanna edit their deployments.

In two days we start the game ;v