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[Bohandas]

The optimal thing would be actually be in some ways kind of the opposite: to obfuscate gender entirely from those making hiring, payment, and promotion decisions; but that would likely entail unworkably extreme measures.

[Morrigi]

I'm starting to pick up a distinct whiff of MRA in this thread. Let's not go there.

That really isn't an argument.

[penguinofhonor]

Translation: "Let's go there."

[O.Wilde]

The optimal thing would be actually be in some ways kind of the opposite: to obfuscate gender entirely from those making hiring, payment, and promotion decisions; but that would likely entail unworkably extreme measures.

Actually, this is done to some point in the hiring of musicians for orchestras. It was discovered that when measures are taken to hide the gender of the performer (namely, a screen to hide their physical person and the removal of shoes to mask the sounds), women made it to the next step of the audition something like 1.5 times more often, which is pretty huge.

[Morrigi]

Translation: "Let's go there."

I'm just pointing out that it's a meaningless statement, and no different from "I'm starting to pick up a distinct whiff of SJW in this thread. Let's not go there."

[Orange Wizard]

Antioch, do you believe that women and men are fundamentally different and always will be, and in what ways?

Dangly vs. not-dangly, muscle mass, brain structure, XX vs. XY, etc

I think you're going to have a harder time if you want to argue that men and women are fundamentally the same

[O.Wilde]

Antioch, do you believe that women and men are fundamentally different and always will be, and in what ways?

Dangly vs. not-dangly, muscle mass, brain structure, XX vs. XY, etc

Do you not believe in trans people somehow? Cause they're a fact of our world, and not believing in a real thing doesn't really make much sense.

[mainiac]

Dangly vs. not-dangly, muscle mass, brain structure, XX vs. XY, etc

I think you're going to have a harder time if you want to argue that men and women are fundamentally the same

This discussion was about hiring practices if I remember correctly.  In what way are dangly bits fundamental to hiring practices or work?

[Orange Wizard]

This discussion was about hiring practices if I remember correctly.  In what way are dangly bits fundamental to hiring practices or work?

Not at all, I was talking about interests and such. More women apply to nursing and childhood education type fields, more men apply to engineering and suchlike. If hiring practises for the given fields are fair between sexes, then the ratio of sexes in those fields will reflect the interest in them.

[alway]

This discussion was about hiring practices if I remember correctly.  In what way are dangly bits fundamental to hiring practices or work?

Not at all, I was talking about interests and such. More women apply to nursing and childhood education type fields, more men apply to engineering and suchlike.

But those things are entirely cultural.

[Gatleos]

This discussion was about hiring practices if I remember correctly.  In what way are dangly bits fundamental to hiring practices or work?

Not at all, I was talking about interests and such. More women apply to nursing and childhood education type fields, more men apply to engineering and suchlike.

But those things are entirely cultural.

That's a very difficult statement to prove or disprove. Personally, I think calling it "entirely cultural" is just as stupid as calling it "entirely biological".

[O.Wilde]

This discussion was about hiring practices if I remember correctly.  In what way are dangly bits fundamental to hiring practices or work?

Not at all, I was talking about interests and such. More women apply to nursing and childhood education type fields, more men apply to engineering and suchlike.

But those things are entirely cultural.

And in addition, the sexism that is PARTICULARLY applied in STEM fields against women in regards to hiring also drives them away from majoring in those fields. I mean, think about it, if a woman has an interest in engineering, but she knows there's a good chance she will be discriminated against and end up jobless after 4 years of school, that might kinda deter her from pursuing an engineering career, right?

[Bohandas]

Antioch, do you believe that women and men are fundamentally different and always will be, and in what ways?

Dangly vs. not-dangly, muscle mass, brain structure, XX vs. XY, etc

Do you not believe in trans people somehow? Cause they're a fact of our world, and not believing in a real thing doesn't really make much sense.

Completely unrelated social phenomenon

[BFEL]

Bohandas: Master of The Worst Possible Way To Make a Point. Who apparently realized it and edited out the statement.

HE MADE PROGRESS GUYS

[Orange Wizard]

And in addition, the sexism that is PARTICULARLY applied in STEM fields against women in regards to hiring

But... is it? I mean, there's going to be some, certainly, (in both directions too, I don't doubt) but is it actually a major thing, statistically speaking? I see no reason to assume sexist hiring is anywhere near as prolific as you assert.

I mean, think about it, if a woman has an interest in engineering, but she knows there's a good chance she will be discriminated against and end up jobless after 4 years of school, that might kinda deter her from pursuing an engineering career, right?

Sure, but that's assuming employers discriminate against women in the first place. Heck, during my time in university, we had it relentlessly drilled into us that the opposite is true.

But those things are entirely cultural.

That's a very difficult statement to prove or disprove. Personally, I think calling it "entirely cultural" is just as stupid as calling it "entirely biological".

What this guy said. What we do know is that men and women have statistically apparent differences in interests - whether this is mostly cultural or mostly biological is moot. Claiming that it's sexist is kinda excessive.