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[feelotraveller]

Because it wasn't at all necessary to subject a student to material that they consider blasphemous in order to teach that lesson.  There are many other ways it could have been accomplished.  Perhaps even asking said student to explain why she held the cartoons to be so, if she was up to it.  The fact she had her teachers beliefs forcibly imposed upon her seems not to have occured to you.

Censorship is a tricky area but as far as I am aware no one has suggested that here.  (That said there are precedents for it in western europe - certain Nazi symbols, gestures and materials, I believe, but you would know better than me.)  It is a sensitive area that needs to be dealt with as a complex matter.  Yes sometimes it is not appropriate to say or do certain things but that does not mean they are completely banned.  The sound bites of the press and the rabble rousing of impassioned zealouts (not saying that you are one) are hardly the best basis for dealing with the matter. 

In the best spirit of the enlightenment - dare to use your own reason.

[feelotraveller]

Sorry my previous reply was specifically a response to Martinuzz, although of course it is piece of the same fabric. 

That has nothing to do with you coming to the conclusion of 'victim blaming'.

You:

Indeed, it is a big problem that the teacher was beheaded.  But don't feign blissful ignorance, it wasn't just some random shit but rather caused by a specific act.

"If he didn't want to be killed he shouldn't have shown that picture".

I was replying directly to Loud Whispers, agreeing that it was a problem that he was beheaded but pointing out that there was a context here that LW was ignoring.  It is a problem to trample all over peoples deeply held beliefs in a state school setting.  Sure the reaction was totally over the top but it remains a bad judgement call on the part of the teacher.  Just like if I walk into the darkest alley in the seediest part of town I don't deserve to be raped/mugged/murdered but it would still be a mistake to do so (barring other very good reasons for needing to do so.)

That's, uh, an unusual line of logic at the very least there. Do you think we should treat Muslims like they're liable to explode into apoplectic religious violence at a moment's notice as a policy? A quick google search indicates the existence of roughly 1.8 billion Muslims, so that would become a very nerve-racking attitude to take pretty quickly.

No.  But I do believe that people serving in public roles should be aware of when they are treading on controversial ground, do their best not to, and tread gently if they must.   

Let me ask you this in return - why did the teacher need to show the cartoons rather than just discuss their role and significance?  I.e. what was the point of that precise part of the act?  In other words why was it necessary to do something that the teacher knew to be incredibly offensive to some people, at least one of whom was in his class?

In the absence of good reasons it seems to me that he lacked the required sensitivity to a complex situation and I believe that the teacher made a bad judgement call = could have made better use of their reason.  Or to put it another way - why deeply offend someone when it can forseeably be avoided?

[JoshuaFH]

Let me rephrase the question: Supposing hypothetically you are Macron. On hearing this news, what is the most reasonable course of action?

[feelotraveller]

I think there are two parts to the response Macron should have made.

Firstly condemn outright the use of violence as a political and religious weapon (and I assume we are all in agreement here, and that in fact Macron probably did make some statement to this effect).
[Additionally given the case in point compare the violence to some of the recent atrocious acts of the US against muslims.  This would certainly make some in the muslim world sit up and think and also take some of the wind out of the sails of (potential) terrorists.  Realistically this is never going to happen. I mention it because the connection is of the utmost importace, the current violence more or less directly stemming from the war on terror.]

Secondly, announce a governmental inquiry/review into the use of materials that can be considered blasphemous in the public school system.  Or better words to that effect, clear enough that it should cover the teachers actions and any similar sorts of cases in the past, present or future.  This shows that the government is concerned about what happened but also allows for a reasoned detailed examination of the problem of conflicting values which goes deeper than a right/wrong binary.  And allows for the conclusions/proposals to become public at a time when the hotheads on both sides have cooled off somewhat.

But then thinking of myself as Macron I am undoubtedly failing to take the opportunity to whip up more religious hatred and further my chances of re-election. 

[Toady One]

Hmm, at least four people have forum guideline trouble in here.  Perhaps its time to move on from the topic.

[misko27]

Sounds like my time. What is my time, you may ask? Oh you better believe it's time to discuss the coronavirus.

You might say "I am bored of Coronavirus! I no longer wish to discuss it!" to which I say "Oh, but the coronavirus sure seems just as interested in us as the day it first met us." And it is most surely busy at that hobby.

To that end: France's lockdown was announced on Wednesday and went into effect on Friday, with Parisians seen fleeing their city before the 9pm curfew locking things down there. Following suit, Belgium announced a partial lockdown on Friday would begin on Monday, with Prime Minister Alexander De Croo saying “We are going towards a reinforced confinement with only one goal: avoiding that health care services collapse." The ECDC considers Belgium's outbreak the worst in Europe, a title they must have recently wrested from Czechia while I was not looking (I would hope this means Czechia has improved, but hope has proved the source of meager comfort recently).

Not to be outdone by damned continentals Boris Johnson has announced a 4 week lockdown. Hopefully, something was learned from the last lockdown. Hopefully. Non-essential businesses close, but schools and colleges remain open.

Feel free to chime in on how Germany or other european countries are doing; or I'll get to them eventually if no one does.

[ChairmanPoo]

*Flings a handful of poop at misko27*

[voliol]

As a side subject, the ECJ recently judged that whole insects were not covered by the former novel food regulations, and as the ”new” regulations of 2018 are not fully enforced (if I understand it right) it is basically legal to sell whole insects as food in the EU now. https://www.foodnavigator.com/Article/2020/10/20/Whole-insects-do-not-fall-under-old-Novel-Food-regulation-rules-EU-Court-of-Justice

[scriver]

That's very interesting. What would you prefer, mealworm or crickets?

I can honestly say that thinking of it, I would really prefer it if my insect food had legs.

Also, höhö. Mealworm.

Edit: So it's specifically whole insects, but not processed ones?

[Grim Portent]

I can honestly say that thinking of it, I would really prefer it if my insect food had legs.

Mealworms have legs. 6 relatively small but fully functional legs at the front part of their body, they sort of drag their tail end around with them like a human propping themselves up on their hands and crawling with their legs limp. They can get a pretty good grip with the little claws on the ends, on a rough enough surface they can properly hold on, but not enough to support their weight at any meaningful incline.

From what I've heard legs are actually a nuisance on small food bugs, they stick in your teeth.

You can buy some big soft bodied beetle larvae as food, but unless you buy fresh they won't have that burst in your mouth quality.

[martinuzz]

In Vienna, there has been an armed attack on either a synagogue, or on pubs and bars near a synagogue.
The Austrian minister of Internal Affairs has stated that he assumes there to be an attack with 'multiple assailants, multiple injured and probably multiple dead'.

According to Austrian press agency APA, one assailant has been arrested.  'Kronen Zeitung' newspaper reports that one assailant blew himself up, but this has not been confirmed.

A policeman guarding the synagogue situated at the Schwedenplatz is said to have been critically injured.
Eye-witnesses speak of hundreds of gunshots from automatic weapons.

Police have cordonned off the area surrounding the synagogue, and the jewish community has called upon it's members to stay indoors.

According to the chairman of the jewish community, it is unclear whether the attack was aimed at the synagogue, since both it, and the office of the jewish community nextdoors were closed at the time.

[ChairmanPoo]

Let´s be frank here, if there has been an attack on a synagoge and a pub that are close to each other, it´s far more likely that it was an undiscriminatory far right or islamic integrist attack than that the local chapter of the Prohibition Party suddenly decided to embrance propaganda of the deed.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I'm hearing that there's a hostage situation currently.

[thompson]

Let´s be frank here, if there has been an attack on a synagoge and a pub that are close to each other, it´s far more likely that it was an undiscriminatory far right or islamic integrist attack than that the local chapter of the Prohibition Party suddenly decided to embrance propaganda of the deed.

Synagogue was closed, so either attackers were going after pubs, or have terrible planning. Clearly a Jewish community, so the intent could be the same.

[Loud Whispers]

In slightly less divisive discussion, Denmark decides to wage war against the true enemy within: THE NURGLE WORSHIPING MINSK.

Health authorities found virus strains in humans and in minks which showed decreased sensitivity against antibodies, potentially lowering the efficacy of future vaccines, Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen said.
“We have a great responsibility towards our own population, but with the mutation that has now been found, we have an even greater responsibility for the rest of the world as well,” Frederiksen told a news conference.
The findings, which have been shared with the World Health Organization and the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, were based on laboratory tests by the State Serum Institute, the Danish authority dealing with infectious diseases.
The head of the WHO’s emergencies programme, Mike Ryan, called on Friday for full-scale scientific investigations of the complex issue of humans - outside China - infecting mink which in turn transmitted the virus back to humans.
“We have been informed by Denmark of a number of persons infected with coronavirus from mink, with some genetic changes in the virus,” WHO said in a statement emailed to Reuters in Geneva. “The Danish authorities are investigating the epidemiological and virological significance of these findings.”