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[Loud Whispers]

And yeah, surrogacy is not exactly a positive thing. It's basically neo-liberal capitalism-religion gone insane to the thousands. If it should be allowed at all it should be with extremely tight conditions and checks so that no businesses of it can be created.

You can't put a price on life, unless there's a 2 for 1 offer

[Naturegirl1999]

And yeah, surrogacy is not exactly a positive thing. It's basically neo-liberal capitalism-religion gone insane to the thousands. If it should be allowed at all it should be with extremely tight conditions and checks so that no businesses of it can be created.

QFT.

I don’t think Quantum Field Theory is the intended anagram spread out of the initials, unless it was? ((I worded that horribly, here;s a better version: I don’t know what QFT stands for in this context, Google informed me that it stands for Quantum Field Theory. I am guessing this is not the case here, though I could be wrong, what does QFT stand for when you used it?))

[Grim Portent]

In this context it means 'Quoted for truth,' a way to signal agreement with the quoted post without typing out a non-message like 'I agree with this.' It's generally used in forums without a mechanic for liking or upvoting.

[Naturegirl1999]

In this context it means 'Quoted for truth,' a way to signal agreement with the quoted post without typing out a non-message like 'I agree with this.' It's generally used in forums without a mechanic for liking or upvoting.

thanks for the info

[martinuzz]

I think surrogacy is a positive thing, both for lgbtetc couples as well as for all those women who can't conceive, for whatever reason. Be it through infertility after a miscarriage, or after being stabbed in the guts in a terrorist attack.

I don't see why it is a 'neo-liberal capitalism-religion thing gone crazy', that kinda sounds like an argument by religious extremist who don't want gays to have children.

It just should never become a business model.

[WealthyRadish]

I don't see why it is a 'neo-liberal capitalism-religion thing gone crazy', that kinda sounds like an argument by religious extremist who don't want gays to have children.

Some libertarians argue that, for instance, people should be permitted to sell themselves into slavery, in part because it's consistent with the mathematical shorthand neoclassical economists use when saying that every transaction is by definition mutually beneficial (i.e. if both parties choose to go through with an exchange then it must be better for both than doing nothing, right?).

Selling your womb and giving birth to a child on behalf of the rich so they don't have to adopt is in my opinion in that same ballpark of desperation-dystopia as seeing a return to slavery, serfdom, selling internal organs, etc.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

While I understand that there are some issues with surrogacy, and I'll admit I didn't know it was so contentious until this discussion, for same-sex couples it's taking on such a different form from rich people buying kids that comparing the two is churlish. I'm pretty hard on natalists most of the time, but even I admit there is some validity to keeping a path open for people to have biological children in spite of being gay or otherwise indisposed of reproduction.

The only way to ensure children are adopted is to develop a stronger adoption culture, which is nearly impossible beneath the crushing heel of neoliberal politics. I don't think surrogacy is the big threat here. Also, letting rich people adopt kids at all may not be the wisest idea, as I'm sure LW will attest in great detail...

[TD1]

Why?

[Loud Whispers]

Why?

Because power has a tendency of revealing who people are

[scriver]

While I understand that there are some issues with surrogacy, and I'll admit I didn't know it was so contentious until this discussion, for same-sex couples it's taking on such a different form from rich people buying kids that comparing the two is churlish.

An myopic and small minded view, without a hint of solidarity or fraternity (as expected from the American liberal).

On the global scale we, americans and europeans, are all rich people, including our same sex couples. And the impoverished women being forced to sell (and break, because pregnancy is fucking dangerous) their bodies and health (both physical and mental) for our benefit is the ones we should be caring about. Fuck, even putting aside the global issues you can bet your tiny lily white rump the people who will bearing the children will be impoverished lower class women with no other options suffering for the gain of the porky burger class.

Same sex couples can adopt. If they're really that desperate for a blood relation then they can find a woman who also wants a child and come to an agreement about shared parentage with her.

[martinuzz]

And the impoverished women being forced to sell (and break, because pregnancy is fucking dangerous) their bodies and health (both physical and mental) for our benefit is the ones we should be caring about. Fuck, even putting aside the global issues you can bet your tiny lily white rump the people who will bearing the children will be impoverished lower class women with no other options suffering for the gain of the porky burger class.

Actually, no.  Surrogate mothers over here mostly come from the well-educated middle class, offering surrogacy for altruistic reasons.
The majority stem from the friends and acquaintances circles of those couples who have a child wish.
That's why I thought it already was law here that it cannot be a paid service, because poor people selling their womb is not a thing here.

[Loud Whispers]

Everyone stop bullying Americans, it's time to bully Europeans

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[scriver]

YOU MAY BULLY MY LINGONSÅS BUT I DO NOT CARE; LINGONSÅS IS FOREVER; LINGONSÅS IS GOD

[Loud Whispers]

YOU MAY BULLY MY LINGONSÅS BUT I DO NOT CARE; LINGONSÅS IS FOREVER; LINGONSÅS IS GOD

Stop right there criminal scum, you violated the sacred distinction between sweet and savoury. Such invalid blasphemy is truly only the product of a Godless, state-succed society concocted in the vilest corridors of Småland. Pay your fine or serve your time, or forever be exiled from humanity, at least until the rest of the scandis stop bullying Sweden's borders

_{please vote for us in eurovision tho}

[TD1]

Why?

Because power has a tendency of revealing who people are

I'm still confused. Being rich doesn't make you more likely to be a paedophile. More likely to be able to fund and hide your perversion, perhaps.