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[Kagus]

Italy sentenced him in absentia to jail for being involved with/leading a jihadist network, so they wanted him extradited there to serve his sentence.

[misko27]

Erm is there not a thread for Great Britain? I was sure there was one. Did I really just have a dream that it existed?

Anyway, since I don't know where else to put this, Boris Johnson has tested positive for COVID-19.

[scriver]

And the reasons for not extraditing him amounts "he has Norwegian family"?

Sounds like he should have been extradited a long time ago. I don't think "family" is usually considered an extenuating circumstance when it comes to crimes.

Either way right wing reactionaries win. Maybe next time you shouldn't throw pity parties for scum and make following basic legal procedure a success for far right nationalists.

Or is the Italian case not trustworthy, maybe?

Erm is there not a thread for Great Britain? I was sure there was one. Did I really just have a dream that it existed?

Anyway, since I don't know where else to put this, Boris Johnson has tested positive for COVID-19.

There was a Brexit thread, but that was not a UK politics general thread. This is the Europolitics thread, not the EU thread, so this is the correct place to put that

[Cheesy Honkers]

Comrade Coronavirus strikes again

[Grim Portent]

And the reasons for not extraditing him amounts "he has Norwegian family"?

Sounds like he should have been extradited a long time ago. I don't think "family" is usually considered an extenuating circumstance when it comes to crimes.

Either way right wing reactionaries win. Maybe next time you shouldn't throw pity parties for scum and make following basic legal procedure a success for far right nationalists.

Or is the Italian case not trustworthy, maybe?

He had refugee status in Norway, having fled from Iraqi Kurdistan in 1991, and prior extradition requests from Iraq, which refused to guarantee they wouldn't torture or kill him if he was extradited back to them, and Norway is a signatory of international treaties that forbid extradition under such circumstances.

He was only convicted in absentia by Italy last year, and they had dropped their prior extradition request for him in 2016 within a week of making it.

[Kagus]

Or is the Italian case not trustworthy, maybe?

Generally when someone is convicted "in absentia", it means they didn't really get a chance to defend themselves. Due to not having been present. The facts of Krekar's involvement in terrorist action is what they've been fighting about in Norwegian court for the past decades, because if it could be proven beyond reasonable doubt then he'd automatically lose his refugee status.

Kurdistan has also wanted him extradited to them, but they'll give him a death sentence and as mentioned it's against Norwegian regulations to release someone into an execution (unless it's covid, apparently).

Also, Italy wanted Norway to extradite him to Italy so that Italy could extradite him to Kurdistan for the death penalty, since Italy doesn't have the same regulations as Norway on that account. Sooo... Yeah. One degree of separation apparently wasn't enough to make it a clean cut exemption.

[martinuzz]

One comforting thought for him...With all the lockdowns and travel restrictions, he won't be extradited to Kurdistan to be executed until after he's died of corona in Italy

[ChairmanPoo]

Also, Italy wanted Norway to extradite him to Italy so that Italy could extradite him to Kurdistan for the death penalty, since Italy doesn't have the same regulations as Norway on that account. Sooo... Yeah. One degree of separation apparently wasn't enough to make it a clean cut exemption.

Isnt it an EU wide regulation though?

[Grim Portent]

Also, Italy wanted Norway to extradite him to Italy so that Italy could extradite him to Kurdistan for the death penalty, since Italy doesn't have the same regulations as Norway on that account. Sooo... Yeah. One degree of separation apparently wasn't enough to make it a clean cut exemption.

Isnt it an EU wide regulation though?

There are multiple treaties that cover the same general subject, Norway and Italy are signatories of the UN convention against torture as well as subject to EU human rights laws. I'm not familiar with Norwegian laws/regulations and treaties, so they may also be part of a regulation that Italy isn't that would forbid the extradition to Iraq.

They may also have different internal standards for the assurances of fair treatment the state requesting extradition needs to meet. Generally speaking if the recipient country can show they don't intend to violate the human rights of the person in question the extradition is allowed to proceed, with exceptions for countries with a history of abusing human rights regardless of assurances or conventions.

[scriver]

And the reasons for not extraditing him amounts "he has Norwegian family"?

Sounds like he should have been extradited a long time ago. I don't think "family" is usually considered an extenuating circumstance when it comes to crimes.

Either way right wing reactionaries win. Maybe next time you shouldn't throw pity parties for scum and make following basic legal procedure a success for far right nationalists.

Or is the Italian case not trustworthy, maybe?

He had refugee status in Norway, having fled from Iraqi Kurdistan in 1991, and prior extradition requests from Iraq, which refused to guarantee they wouldn't torture or kill him if he was extradited back to them, and Norway is a signatory of international treaties that forbid extradition under such circumstances.

He was only convicted in absentia by Italy last year, and they had dropped their prior extradition request for him in 2016 within a week of making it.

Refugee status isn't relevant, it doesn't excuse you from doing crime. Thanks for the information about the case, though. It changes the light a lot.

Or is the Italian case not trustworthy, maybe?

Generally when someone is convicted "in absentia", it means they didn't really get a chance to defend themselves. Due to not having been present. The facts of Krekar's involvement in terrorist action is what they've been fighting about in Norwegian court for the past decades, because if it could be proven beyond reasonable doubt then he'd automatically lose his refugee status.

I'm pretty sure Italy would gave him a chance and he chose not to.

Kurdistan has also wanted him extradited to them, but they'll give him a death sentence and as mentioned it's against Norwegian regulations to release someone into an execution (unless it's covid, apparently).

Also, Italy wanted Norway to extradite him to Italy so that Italy could extradite him to Kurdistan for the death penalty, since Italy doesn't have the same regulations as Norway on that account. Sooo... Yeah. One degree of separation apparently wasn't enough to make it a clean cut exemption.

I agree that this is enough to make his extradition not standard procedure.

[Grim Portent]

I would generally say being a refugee from a state matters when considering an extradition request from that state, or from a country with extradition arrangements with that state. The whole point of granting someone refugee status is to protect them from being abused in their country of origin by private or state actors.

He was arrested a few times in Norway for various things from what I can find, mostly threats and incitement to violence, but I'm unclear on how much of his prison sentences were carried out.

[scriver]

I would say what matters is if the thing he is wanted for is a thing the refuge state would find criminal (and of coursr whether the charge is trustworthy or not).

[Grim Portent]

I would say what matters is if the thing he is wanted for is a thing the refuge state would find criminal (and of coursr whether the charge is trustworthy or not).

You don't think the possibility of humans rights violations by the recipient country matters?

If I thought a refugee who'd committed say, a murder, in their home country couldn't be sent back without getting tortured and killed I'd offer to let their home country hold a trial in absentia, sentence them to a prison sentence and then carry it out for them by proxy rather than throw human rights under the bus for convenience.

If you send someone to be executed you're basically executing him yourself by proxy, which is against the principles of basically every European nation except Belarus.

[scriver]

I would say what matters is if the thing he is wanted for is a thing the refuge state would find criminal (and of coursr whether the charge is trustworthy or not).

You don't think the possibility of humans rights violations by the recipient country matters?

I said I did literally just two posts above that one. The quoted post was about whether or not refugee status is relevant when considering extradition.

[Grim Portent]

I would say what matters is if the thing he is wanted for is a thing the refuge state would find criminal (and of coursr whether the charge is trustworthy or not).

You don't think the possibility of humans rights violations by the recipient country matters?

I said I did literally just two posts above that one. The quoted post was about whether or not refugee status is relevant when considering extradition.

I can't imagine any circumstances where someone would have refugee status without coming from a home nation that poses a human rights risk. Giving someone refugee status is an implicit declaration that any criminal prosecution against them from their home can't be dealt with humanely.

Or a declaration that their home country is dangerous enough for them that being there is a human rights violation. But that means much the same.