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[Moddan]

Time for your daily dose of Norwegian!

Nord Polen: Northern Poland

Nordpolen: The North Pole

It's a tiny bit different in German:

Nordpol: North Pole
Nordpolen: gib back our clay

[scriver]

In Swedish both are Nordpolen. The difference is in the pronunciation.

Also surely Kagus you do not särskriv Nord and Polen? Or at least write it Nord-Polen.

Northern Ireland - the official name of the country, used by all. Recognises that Northern Ireland is a separate entity in its own right.

North Ireland - not the official name of the country, used by those who don't wish to recognise that Northern Ireland is a separate political entity. Often used by those who want Northern Ireland to be subsumed into the Republic of Ireland.



Surely you can see how one is more politically charged? As 'outsiders', you can't be expected to automatically know these things. As Arx says, I am now telling you. If you want to make a politically charged statement by using North Ireland, that's up to you; but at least now you know that it is charged.

Yeah, but going by your distinction Northern Ireland would still be politically charged to any Irishman. You can't go "This is the name I'm comfortable with (because it supports my political stance), so it's the neutral term". You have a pretty strong bias as part of the occupation, after all.

[ChairmanPoo]

Let's agree Northern Potatoland as a neutral term which will be equally satisfactory to all parties.

[smjjames]

In Swedish both are Nordpolen. The difference is in the pronunciation.

Also surely Kagus you do not särskriv Nord and Polen? Or at least write it Nord-Polen.

Northern Ireland - the official name of the country, used by all. Recognises that Northern Ireland is a separate entity in its own right.

North Ireland - not the official name of the country, used by those who don't wish to recognise that Northern Ireland is a separate political entity. Often used by those who want Northern Ireland to be subsumed into the Republic of Ireland.



Surely you can see how one is more politically charged? As 'outsiders', you can't be expected to automatically know these things. As Arx says, I am now telling you. If you want to make a politically charged statement by using North Ireland, that's up to you; but at least now you know that it is charged.

Yeah, but going by your distinction Northern Ireland would still be politically charged to any Irishman. You can't go "This is the name I'm comfortable with (because it supports my political stance), so it's the neutral term". You have a pretty strong bias as part of the occupation, after all.

Isn’t he on the side of the Republican unionists (the ones that want to join ROI. Though I’m a little unsure here as while he is a ‘leaver’ in terms of Brexit, i’m not entirely certain his stance on NI staying with the U.K. or not, though I think he may actually be on the side of staying in the U.K., not sure if he’s ever specified his position on that)? Just because he isn’t native Irish or his ancestors weren’t, doesn’t mean he can’t sympathize with or be on the side of those who want to leave the UK and join ROI.

[Arx]

Northern Ireland - the official name of the country, used by all. Recognises that Northern Ireland is a separate entity in its own right.

North Ireland - not the official name of the country, used by those who don't wish to recognise that Northern Ireland is a separate political entity. Often used by those who want Northern Ireland to be subsumed into the Republic of Ireland.



Surely you can see how one is more politically charged? As 'outsiders', you can't be expected to automatically know these things. As Arx says, I am now telling you. If you want to make a politically charged statement by using North Ireland, that's up to you; but at least now you know that it is charged.

Yeah, but going by your distinction Northern Ireland would still be politically charged to any Irishman. You can't go "This is the name I'm comfortable with (because it supports my political stance), so it's the neutral term". You have a pretty strong bias as part of the occupation, after all.

Northern Ireland is a globally accepted geopolitical term for an entity that is separate from Ireland. What you're doing at the moment is like referring to Ukraine as South Russia, or maybe Norway as "West Scandinavia" and Sweden as "East Scandinavia".

When you say "North Ireland" instead of "Northern Ireland", you tacitly imply that it is a part of Ireland, not the UK. I have no horse in this race and know practically nothing about the Troubles, but I can certainly see the distinction.

You can't just refuse to call a country/province by its proper name because you don't think there's a distinction! All discourse breaks down because it stops being possible to agree on a common language.

[Il Palazzo]

Meanwhile in Polan news but still in the OMGovernment category:
In the EU parliament Timmermans compared the actions of Polan government vis-a-vis the ongoing attempts to take control of the judicial branch to the political route the Nazis took in the 30s.
Ooh, bold move, Frans. Polan establishment has a thing about having its spotless self-image so besmirched.
Now the government talking heads in the tube are having a go, basically screaming 'Godwin's Law' at the top of their lungs. Like, serious trigger warning. Also, Timmermans apparently hates Polan and is a literal commie (which is par for the course, since the EU is the new Soviet).
It's better than Youtube comment feed.

[TD1]

In Swedish both are Nordpolen. The difference is in the pronunciation.

Also surely Kagus you do not särskriv Nord and Polen? Or at least write it Nord-Polen.

Northern Ireland - the official name of the country, used by all. Recognises that Northern Ireland is a separate entity in its own right.

North Ireland - not the official name of the country, used by those who don't wish to recognise that Northern Ireland is a separate political entity. Often used by those who want Northern Ireland to be subsumed into the Republic of Ireland.



Surely you can see how one is more politically charged? As 'outsiders', you can't be expected to automatically know these things. As Arx says, I am now telling you. If you want to make a politically charged statement by using North Ireland, that's up to you; but at least now you know that it is charged.

Yeah, but going by your distinction Northern Ireland would still be politically charged to any Irishman. You can't go "This is the name I'm comfortable with (because it supports my political stance), so it's the neutral term". You have a pretty strong bias as part of the occupation, after all.

Lol, the occupation. My family has owned the same land for four hundred years. Our name is on maps of ownership older than America. At what point will you stop calling me an 'occupier' and start calling me a native?

Smjjames: I'm a unionist. The UK, for all its faults, is my nation and its government my government. The ROI is a foreign  nation to me.

As for the continuing debate on terminology, I'll just say I agree with Arx.

[Reelya]

If Brexit causes there to be trade-barriers or tariffs between Ireland and North Ireland then the economy of North Ireland would tank even more, and you'll probably see a swing of normal Irish people who want to leave the UK and join Ireland/EU. Yeah, so if your a North Ireland separatist then you should push Brexit, totally.

Also, I'm guessing by 'separatist' you somehow mean 'unionist'? Or are you specifically referring to someone who wants a hard border?

Thanks for clearing up the semantics on North(ern) Ireland, take that as noted.

However, I definitely don't mean unionist here. Maybe I didn't pick a term that is in common use, by by "separatist" I mean the opposite of a Unionist, i.e. i meant people who want NI to split from Britain.

My point was that if Brexit occurs, then NI splitting from the UK is much more likely. So if you're NOT a unionist, you should be pro-Brexit. The UK continuing along in the EU makes NI unionism much easier to maintain as a status quo.

[TD1]

Ah, fair enough. As I said previously, though, putting a spanner in the NI economy is the greatest way to de-incentivise a union with the Republic. Let's not forget, they don't exactly want us. Loyalty exists only in Northern Ireland, whether British or Irish. If taking Northern Ireland will constitute a blow to their economy, the Republic will not want us.

As I said, we cost billions per year as-is. I don't know that (even if they were willing to take the hit) they could actually sustain it.

And as for becoming an independent nation... just no. Firstly, it would be catastrophic economically. Secondly, it would be catastrophic politically (we currently don't have devolved parliament, which has allowed Westminster to impose draconian abortion laws on us. All because Northern Ireland politics is a mess.) Thirdly, there's no stomach for it. It is extremely seldom that an actual NIer suggests it - it tends to be others who do so.

[Teneb]

tl;dr: Northern Potatoland is a complicated place

[smjjames]

I thought NI has devolved government? Though from what I hear, it’s more of a mess than the US, or even the US and U.K. combined right now. And IMO the whole Sinn Fein not taking part in parliament likely only makes things worse, though it’s been the status quo for decades now.

[TD1]

There is a devolved government which currently refuses to govern. Northern Ireland politics are complicated, but essentially it requires power sharing - one Republican and one Unionist. There was an issue with a renewable heating scheme which cost a large amount of money to the government. Sinn Fein demanded that the unionist First Minister resign, which she refused to do. The Sinn Fein minister died and they refused to replace him, resulting in the collapse of power-sharing and with it devolved government.

In other words, we're one Republican short of a government.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Don't worry, the way BoJo's been talking NI will return to direct rule within the year, alongside Scotland and Wales.

Who knew the solution could be so simple?

[Ametsala]

Well, BoJo promised to unite the country, didn't he? He already united the party by kicking out all who dared disagree, so he's got experience on this uniting thing.

In other words, we're one Republican short of a government.

Or one Unionist too much.
There's a lengthy Wikipedia article about the mess for those interested.

[TD1]

Well, I suppose you could term it like that in so far as the current Unionist resigning miiiight result in us not being a Republican short.

But it's just easier to say we're a Republican short