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[ChairmanPoo]

No deal brexit is the default of not agreeing a deal. Its not even a matter of forcing no deal brexit through, he could just sit on his thumbs and wait it to happen. In fact even if he didnt want it to happen  he.might not be able to steer it away anyway. Lets not forget that  the British prliament hss voted decisively against no deal..m but also against every deal.

[Naturegirl1999]

What exactly didn’t they like about the deals? If they want Brexit, why do they reject every deal?

[Cheesy Honkers]

If I remember correctly the parliament is split pretty evenly between several factions (that do not follow party lines whatsoever). Any deal that pleases one faction is unacceptable to basically everyone else (especially the hardline no-dealers or remainers). Compromise isn't possible here because EU is basically sick of this bullshit and isn't willing to negotiate further.

[TD1]

Hahaha.

Yes, the EU won't compromise because they're sick of British stupidity.

Nothing to do with the deal they negotiated being so ridiculously in their favour it took them 30 mins to accept it and the British government had to throw it into the rubbish three times before May realised that even Leaver MPs didn't want a deal which was worse than Remain.

[MorleyDev]

Isn't every deal by definition going to be worse than Remain, since all of them will result in reduced access by Britain to the resources and market of the EU? No Deal being losing the most access of all of them. That's what leaving kinda means, that we don't have to follow the rules of the EU market except when trading (when you will always have to follow their rules and they ours) with them but in return we don't have access to the resources of the EU infrastructure.

The 'deal' by Theresa may wasn't even an actual deal deal, it was just a reaaaallly long agreement to keep as close to status quo as possible until they could work out an actual 'free trade' deal, which would still be worse than Remain since still mean our products follow different standards by default and require extra verification before being traded. It's just mean we wouldn't have the WTO-default 3rd country export/import taxes on top of the cost of that certification of all goods we export/import.

The sticking point being if it couldn't be worked out what the heck do you do with the Irish border-that-can't-actually-be-a-border. If memory serves, the weird half-in half-out NI slightly different regulatory to rest of UK backstop solution they settled on was actually proposed by the UK negotiators in the first place, hence the EU being a little pissed off that the thing they view it that they compromised on more than they'd like is what parliament opposed to.

And if they open it up again, it opens everything up again. Which means France and Spain, who think they compromised too much and should have pushed more on fishing rights and Gibraltar, get to start pushing again.

[Naturegirl1999]

What if the members of the UK figure out which countries would stay,, if Northern Ireland stays, Britain could leave, though the UK would be broken then

[TD1]

Though the UK would be broken then

Yes, that would be the problem. Not to mention how you would get the EU to agree to letting fractions of nations enter the EU. Sets a bad precedent.

Isn't every deal by definition going to be worse than Remain, since all of them will result in reduced access by Britain to the resources and market of the EU? No Deal being losing the most access of all of them. That's what leaving kinda means, that we don't have to follow the rules of the EU market except when trading (when you will always have to follow their rules and they ours) with them but in return we don't have access to the resources of the EU infrastructure.

If you define the success of Brexit by how much access Britain has to EU markets, then yes, anything other than Remain is going to be worse.

[Cheesy Honkers]

Nothing to do with the deal they negotiated being so ridiculously in their favour it took them 30 mins to accept it and the British government had to throw it into the rubbish three times before May realised that even Leaver MPs didn't want a deal which was worse than Remain.

Yeah, fair point, I do agree.

[Grim Portent]

What if the members of the UK figure out which countries would stay,, if Northern Ireland stays, Britain could leave, though the UK would be broken then

There's also the problem that the divide between opinions is not just spread across the different parts of the UK, but the different parts of the individual countries. If you just bumped NI out, which they don't want anyway, there'd still be lots of people who want to be in the EU in the rest of the UK, like lots of London for example. I'm not even sure it's possible for the UK to kick out parts of itself unilaterally.

Though I would now be interested in seeing polls for Leave supporters in the rest of the UK about whether they would have accepted trying to kick out NI if it guaranteed a a quicker Brexit. Don't think anything like that was ever done though.

Personally I do feel a secondary set of questions about what to do in the event of something like this should have been on the referendum, or on a second one held shortly after. Though they'd pretty much have to be about ways to divide up the country between leaving and joining prior to a split in the nation, because there isn't really any good compromise point between in and out.

[MorleyDev]

I mean, I do remember being promised we'd have comparable access to what we had in the EU by members of the leave campaign wthout being subject to the EU regulatory laws whilst also being able to have amazing totally wonderful trust me my hands are so huuuuge deals with every other country because of the size of our giant economic (mostly imports and service industry based) penis.

Source for such claims: http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/briefing_trade.html

If we don't get that, is Brexit by definition of not achieving what was promised, not a failure?

Considering the EU are our biggest import partner (since proximity helps tremendously there) as well as the biggest export partner for our service industry (since proximity helps tremendously there), reduced access to them does hurt current businesses. Is it not the job of a government to protect those businesses and the people who work for them? Especially since 80% of the UK economy is services?

[smjjames]

What if the members of the UK figure out which countries would stay,, if Northern Ireland stays, Britain could leave, though the UK would be broken then

Except that they DON'T want to have NI or anybody else split off from the UK, which is why it's not an option.

Though the UK would be broken then

Yes, that would be the problem. Not to mention how you would get the EU to agree to letting fractions of nations enter the EU. Sets a bad precedent.

I'd think it would transition into full country status first? Not a great precedent for future exits though.

Isn't every deal by definition going to be worse than Remain, since all of them will result in reduced access by Britain to the resources and market of the EU? No Deal being losing the most access of all of them. That's what leaving kinda means, that we don't have to follow the rules of the EU market except when trading (when you will always have to follow their rules and they ours) with them but in return we don't have access to the resources of the EU infrastructure.

If you define the success of Brexit by how much access Britain has to EU markets, then yes, anything other than Remain is going to be worse.

Which has been the problem of Brexit from the start, nobody agrees on what Brexit is supposed to mean or what they really want out of Brexit.

The other thing that makes dealing with NI far from simple is the history of The Troubles and the Good Friday Deal.

I mean, I do remember being promised we'd have comparable access to what we had in the EU by members of the leave campaign wthout being subject to the EU regulatory laws whilst also being able to have amazing totally wonderful trust me my hands are so huuuuge deals with every other country because of the size of our giant economic (mostly imports and service industry based) penis.

Source for such claims: http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/briefing_trade.html

If we don't get that, is Brexit by definition of not achieving what was promised, not a failure?

Except that in order to have access to the same sweet trade deals, they by definition have to follow the regulations because they'd still be in the EU market, which is the point of contention really.

[Naturegirl1999]

What if the members of the UK figure out which countries would stay,, if Northern Ireland stays, Britain could leave, though the UK would be broken then

There's also the problem that the divide between opinions is not just spread across the different parts of the UK, but the different parts of the individual countries. If you just bumped NI out, which they don't want anyway, there'd still be lots of people who want to be in the EU in the rest of the UK, like lots of London for example. I'm not even sure it's possible for the UK to kick out parts of itself unilaterally.

Though I would now be interested in seeing polls for Leave supporters in the rest of the UK about whether they would have accepted trying to kick out NI if it guaranteed a a quicker Brexit. Don't think anything like that was ever done though.

Personally I do feel a secondary set of questions about what to do in the event of something like this should have been on the referendum, or on a second one held shortly after. Though they'd pretty much have to be about ways to divide up the country between leaving and joining prior to a split in the nation, because there isn't really any good compromise point between in and out.

I don’t know much abou Brexit, thank you for telling me why the idea wouldn’t work. My thinking was that t was just Britain who wanted to leave, not the entirety of the UK

[Kagus]

What if the members of the UK figure out which countries would stay,, if Northern Ireland stays, Britain could leave, though the UK would be broken then

There's also the problem that the divide between opinions is not just spread across the different parts of the UK, but the different parts of the individual countries. If you just bumped NI out, which they don't want anyway, there'd still be lots of people who want to be in the EU in the rest of the UK, like lots of London for example. I'm not even sure it's possible for the UK to kick out parts of itself unilaterally.

Though I would now be interested in seeing polls for Leave supporters in the rest of the UK about whether they would have accepted trying to kick out NI if it guaranteed a a quicker Brexit. Don't think anything like that was ever done though.

Personally I do feel a secondary set of questions about what to do in the event of something like this should have been on the referendum, or on a second one held shortly after. Though they'd pretty much have to be about ways to divide up the country between leaving and joining prior to a split in the nation, because there isn't really any good compromise point between in and out.

I don’t know much abou Brexit, thank you for telling me why the idea wouldn’t work. My thinking was that t was just Britain who wanted to leave, not the entirety of the UK

Think you mean England, love. Britain is the geographical landmass that contains the countries of England, Scotland, and Wales. "Great Britain" means the same thing, except for when it means the same thing but also the rest of the UK.

The problem comes partially from the fact that England thinks it is the entirety of the UK.

[Naturegirl1999]

What if the members of the UK figure out which countries would stay,, if Northern Ireland stays, Britain could leave, though the UK would be broken then

There's also the problem that the divide between opinions is not just spread across the different parts of the UK, but the different parts of the individual countries. If you just bumped NI out, which they don't want anyway, there'd still be lots of people who want to be in the EU in the rest of the UK, like lots of London for example. I'm not even sure it's possible for the UK to kick out parts of itself unilaterally.

Though I would now be interested in seeing polls for Leave supporters in the rest of the UK about whether they would have accepted trying to kick out NI if it guaranteed a a quicker Brexit. Don't think anything like that was ever done though.

Personally I do feel a secondary set of questions about what to do in the event of something like this should have been on the referendum, or on a second one held shortly after. Though they'd pretty much have to be about ways to divide up the country between leaving and joining prior to a split in the nation, because there isn't really any good compromise point between in and out.

I don’t know much abou Brexit, thank you for telling me why the idea wouldn’t work. My thinking was that t was just Britain who wanted to leave, not the entirety of the UK

Think you mean England, love. Britain is the geographical landmass that contains the countries of England, Scotland, and Wales. "Great Britain" means the same thing, except for when it means the same thing but also the rest of the UK.

The problem comes partially from the fact that England thinks it is the entirety of the UK.

Thank you, yes I did mean England. I thought it was just England that wanted to leave

[Il Palazzo]

The problem comes partially from the fact that England thinks it is the entirety of the UK.

Have you been to UK? London is the entire country, the rest is just sheep and shrubbery.