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[scriver]

Saying that there is a constant attempt to create a USE is the the same as "Wyoming rancher muttering about the government trying to put the Mark of the Beast on his cattle and how vaccines are a secret CIA mind-control program"? Sure, if you had the vice president literally declaring that that's what they want to happen, maybe. Are you that deep in denial, Redking? Or are you just that uneducated?

Any step we take to unify the globe is a good one, even if the methods are hamfisted and the results underwhelming.

I really can't fathom what kind of imperialist insanity makes someone think something like this.

So you would see us continue our wasteful and pointless squabbling until we finally eliminate ourselves in a (long overdue) apocalyptic war?

Nothing about a global government would mean a stop to either. All it would mean is a hell of a lot more imperialism, colonialism, and oppression, for reasons Loud Whispers outlined above in the post you chose to ignore.

[Loud Whispers]

Saying that there is a constant attempt to create a USE is the the same as "Wyoming rancher muttering about the government trying to put the Mark of the Beast on his cattle and how vaccines are a secret CIA mind-control program"? Sure, if you had the vice president literally declaring that that's what they want to happen, maybe. Are you that deep in denial, Redking? Or are you just that uneducated?

By next year, we should also address the international role of the euro. The euro is 20 years young and has already come a long way – despite its critics.
It is now the world's second currency, after the US dollar, with 60 countries linking their currencies to the euro in one way or another. But we must do more to allow our single currency to play its full role on the international scene.
Recent events have brought into sharp focus the need to deepen our Economic and Monetary Union and build deep and liquid capital markets. The Commission has made a series of proposals to do just that – most of which now await adoption.
We can and must go further. It is absurd that Europe pays for 80 % of its energy import bill – worth 300 billion euro a year – in US dollars when only roughly 2% of our energy imports come from the United States. It is absurd, ridiculous that European companies buy European planes in dollars instead of euro. This all needs to be changed.

The EU seeks to supplant the USA economically, militarily and politically, but nah fam it's a conspiracy made by inbred evangelical cattle farmers [/s]

[Teneb]

Wait, hold on a second. "20 years young"? Who even says that?

_{dirty imperialists, that's who! /s}

[RedKing]

Saying that there is a constant attempt to create a USE is the the same as "Wyoming rancher muttering about the government trying to put the Mark of the Beast on his cattle and how vaccines are a secret CIA mind-control program"? Sure, if you had the vice president literally declaring that that's what they want to happen, maybe. Are you that deep in denial, Redking? Or are you just that uneducated?

No, I don't see a USE model as something nefarious. I'm talking about the stuff like "Brexit was a German plot to break Britain's power" or "Brussels is secretly trying to allow Muslims to swamp Europe and something something our precious white culture".

@LW: M8, you were Making Shitposting Great Again for pretty much the whole of 2016 in Ameripol.

Also not sure how looking to have Europeans use the Euro when buying from Europeans is "supplanting" the US. I'm surprised you're not bitching about us dirty Yanks and our currency hegemony.

[Maximum Spin]

Also not sure how looking to have Europeans use the Euro when buying from Europeans is "supplanting" the US. I'm surprised you're not bitching about us dirty Yanks and our currency hegemony.

It's not about the currency hegemony, it's about the attitude that "this perfectly good preëxisting medium of exchange is insufficiently European (and therefore not under our control), we must replace it with company scrip immediately!"

The US achieved its "currency hegemony" by having a giant economy that made it convenient for everyone else, not by trying to mandate that other countries give up what they were using before in preference to the Almighty Dollar.

[Rowanas]

Saying that there is a constant attempt to create a USE is the the same as "Wyoming rancher muttering about the government trying to put the Mark of the Beast on his cattle and how vaccines are a secret CIA mind-control program"? Sure, if you had the vice president literally declaring that that's what they want to happen, maybe. Are you that deep in denial, Redking? Or are you just that uneducated?

No, I don't see a USE model as something nefarious. I'm talking about the stuff like "Brexit was a German plot to break Britain's power" or "Brussels is secretly trying to allow Muslims to swamp Europe and something something our precious white culture".

@LW: M8, you were Making Shitposting Great Again for pretty much the whole of 2016 in Ameripol.

Also not sure how looking to have Europeans use the Euro when buying from Europeans is "supplanting" the US. I'm surprised you're not bitching about us dirty Yanks and our currency hegemony.

I am!  Fuck you guys!

[Teneb]

Also not sure how looking to have Europeans use the Euro when buying from Europeans is "supplanting" the US. I'm surprised you're not bitching about us dirty Yanks and our currency hegemony.

It's not about the currency hegemony, it's about the attitude that "this perfectly good preëxisting medium of exchange is insufficiently European (and therefore not under our control), we must replace it with company scrip immediately!"

The US achieved its "currency hegemony" by having a giant economy that made it convenient for everyone else, not by trying to mandate that other countries give up what they were using before in preference to the Almighty Dollar.

Wasn't a lot of it also to do with the whole petrodollar stuff where they basically enforced hegemony via market manipulation?

Ooooh, oooh, don't forget the Banana Republics!

Something something condors, amirite?

[Loud Whispers]

You know, I'm sitting here watching the British government implode with a complete lack of concern.
There's something worrying about how I feel like I should be at least a bit concerned about it, but the past two years have been such a shitshow this is just another "eh" issue.

I don't know, I'm actually rather looking forward to it. I am just confused as to why May hasn't resigned yet

No, I don't see a USE model as something nefarious. I'm talking about the stuff like "Brexit was a German plot to break Britain's power" or "Brussels is secretly trying to allow Muslims to swamp Europe and something something our precious white culture".

Who the hell said any of that? There was no other way to interpret your post other than a plain and simple insult that euroscepticism in the face of the EU's ambition was a delusion on the par of an American strawman, I don't see a single person in here talking about top sekrit German plots to break Britain or secret Brussels plots to swamp Europe with muslims and something something our precious white culture. I don't even consider a United States of Europe vying to supplant the USA as nefarious, I consider the inception of the EU as nefarious but not its ambition - its ambition is spoken in the open plain as day. Throwing that kind of antagonistic comparison is exactly the reason why American politics is a cancerous bipartisan tumour, because it inherently assumes that someone who believes in your opposition is a mental, moral and physical invalid.

@LW: M8, you were Making Shitposting Great Again for pretty much the whole of 2016 in Ameripol.

And not once did I ever attack someone for what they "seemed" like, if my banter had a barb it was always hooked in something real, like the DNC going after cartoon frogs & milk, or a World Wide Wrestling Entertainment host becoming the President.

Also not sure how looking to have Europeans use the Euro when buying from Europeans is "supplanting" the US. I'm surprised you're not bitching about us dirty Yanks and our currency hegemony.

Europeans already use the Euro when buying from Europeans - except in energy and defence, which the USA uses to prop up the petrodollar. Juncker talking about the EU spending dollars to purchase its energy needs when only 2% of its energy imports even come from the USA must explicitly refer to one of two things; purchasing energy from Russia with euros, or purchasing energy from the Middle East with euros.

“The rest of world is now looking at Europe for leadership. And we can do it.”
That divergence from the US extended—albeit very tentatively—to security matters. Seemingly alluding to Trump’s threat to leave NATO if Europe doesn’t step up its military investments, Mogherini acknowledged that it was “important…that Europeans start to invest better on defense.” However, she presented that not as a way to keep the US from leaving NATO but to give Europe “strategic autonomy that, potentially, we … could need to use.” The not-so-subtle message: Europe is preparing for a military future without America.

He spoke of the importance of respecting and implementing EU Court of Justice decisions. He said that respecting the rule of law and abiding their decisions are not an option but an obligation.
Turning to international diplomacy, he said: "we are all responsible for the Europe of today and must take responsibility for the Europe of tomorrow... Europe can no longer be a spectator of international events, but must become an active player, an architect of tomorrow's world. There is a strong demand for Europe throughout the world and to meet such a demand we must speak with one voice."

Architect of tomorrow.

Europe, as a bigger oil buyer than China and the issuer of a far more powerful currency than the yuan, would probably stand a better chance of establishing an alternative to the U.S.-based futures markets. And there’s an additional factor that might help: the geography of Europe’s oil sources.
“Any change from the dominance of the US dollar with respect to the pricing and invoicing of the industry would probably be a political issue in which governments of oil-producing countries had an important say,” the 2016 European Commission report said. About 28 percent of EU oil imports come from Russia, which is eager to undermine the dollar’s dominance. Invoicing these supplies in a currency other than the dollar should be feasible, and it would put pressure on other suppliers to shift as well.
Energy isn’t the only area where the euro could challenge the dollar. Collectively, the EU accounts for 15 percent of all international trade in goods, on par with the U.S. and China as a global trade participant. About 93 percent of U.S. trade is invoiced in dollars. If the EU managed to reach that proportion with the euro, it would mean 1.9 trillion euros ($2.2 trillion) a year in additional euro transactions at last year’s trade levels (less without the U.K., but still a mind-boggling amount).

No seriously I don't understand how you can observe someone state their ambitions and pursue them in front of your face and see nothing.

I also do bitch about the USA, hence the shitposting in Ameripol thread ;P
The general offensiveness of the US world hegemony also has little bearing on my lack of desire to be a part of the EU's world hegemony bid; if the EU wins it will not make much difference to the UK, but if the EU makes the bid while the UK is paying for it, the costs whether the EU wins or lose are great - all for the purpose of hurting the country we are closest in the world with. Need it be forgotten that France tried to keep us out of the EU because they thought we were too close to the USA? UK and USA are a pair of geopolitical slags in bed together

[RedKing]

It is a bit rich to hear a Brit complaining about anybody else's bid at "world hegemony".

Furthermore, the article you quote explicitly supports the notion that EuroCorps (or whatever they're calling it) is intended to fill the gap left by a very plausible US (and UK?) withdrawal from NATO, not so they can bring Merkelism to the world at the barrel of a gun.

This isn't a new idea. And not surprisingly, it last gained traction and prominence during the Bush years, when the US started making all sorts of unilateral foreign policy moves. If the US can elect a rational government who doesn't want to tear up the norms of the international system (which would mean neither Trump nor Sanders), the push for a European unified military would fall apart.

[Maximum Spin]

Wasn't a lot of it also to do with the whole petrodollar stuff where they basically enforced hegemony via market manipulation?

Market manipulation's fine, it amuses me. If the EU want to try that, I'm all for it!

[Loud Whispers]

It is a bit rich to hear a Brit complaining about anybody else's bid at "world hegemony".

'There had taken place, in the half-century or so before the [1914] war, a tremendous expansion of British power, accompanied by a pronounced lack of sympathy for any similar ambition on the part of other nations... If any nation had truly made a bid for world power, it was Great Britain. In fact, it had more than made a bid for it, it had achieved it. The Germans were merely talking about building a railway to Bagdhad. The Queen of England was Empress of India. If any nation had upset the world's balance of power, it was Great Britain.' t. J. Remak
It's not at all surprising to anyone familiar with the history of British foreign policy. It's the exact same line used to express annoyance by the Kaiser, or the Fuhrer, at British opposition to their territorial ambitions. STATUS QUO Mr. SPEAKER, HARK CRY STATUS QUO

Furthermore, the article you quote explicitly supports the notion that EuroCorps (or whatever they're calling it) is intended to fill the gap left by a very plausible US (and UK?) withdrawal from NATO, not so they can bring Merkelism to the world at the barrel of a gun.

...Where has the UK withdrawal entered your mind from? Plus this notion is easily dispelled just by the simple fact that these plans pre-date the US President's bid for candidacy in the RNC, let alone their actual election. Much like the EU trying to supplant the dollar since Bush or the EU Defence Agency enlargening even to areas of Europe NATO was reluctant to expand, it stretches the imagination to perceive decades of planning as a temporary response to a future President they could never have predicted. Where stated ambition and observed action coincide, it is illogical to ignore evidence in favour of rhetoric. In particular, US politics does not have an especially subtle rhetorical style shall we say, whereas in Europe everything is as polite as can be. Hence, mention of purchasing petroleum in euros or supplanting the American-led alliance with an autonomous European force, without alerting the Americans to the consequences of an autonomous European force conflicting with American foreign policy.

This isn't a new idea. And not surprisingly, it last gained traction and prominence during the Bush years, when the US started making all sorts of unilateral foreign policy moves. If the US can elect a rational government who doesn't want to tear up the norms of the international system (which would mean neither Trump nor Sanders), the push for a European unified military would fall apart.

If it is not a new idea, you should be familiar with its reality. If you are familiar with its reality, then why pretend as if this is some conspiracy you have only just discovered? I find it thoroughly dulling when people are somehow capable of rejecting the very words EU Presidents and Commissioners speak. European world hegemony is not a new idea; in some circles, it is tradition. Whatever the EU shall believe, whatever the European peoples should not believe, I shall not wish to be a part of this bid, any more than I would support a Napoleon, Wilhelm or Hitler. It's not terribly worth it, while the costs of winning or losing are rather grave

*EDIT
Do you need the EU President shouting "USA #2, USA #2, USA #2" whilst burning a bucket of McDonalds, Iphones and Eagles?

[RedKing]

*EDIT
Do you need the EU President shouting "USA #2, USA #2, USA #2" whilst burning a bucket of McDonalds, Iphones and Eagles?

Why would that bother me? 
I'm not a nationalist. Hell, I'd like to see us taken down a few pegs, cause I think being #1 for the last 70 years or so has done some rather bad things to our national psyche.

[Loud Whispers]

Why would that bother me? 
I'm not a nationalist. Hell, I'd like to see us taken down a few pegs, cause I think being #1 for the last 70 years or so has done some rather bad things to our national psyche.

I wouldn't expect it to bother you, I'd expect it to illustrate the intent of the EU ;P
I will agree with you on the latter point for sure. Being at the top of the mountain is a bleak and lonely place to stay for any length of time, being super relevant brings significant downsides with it. If however the US should decide to let the world slip into a multipolar one unchallenged, I should hope it is done consciously in an organised manner, much in the same way that the Obama administration attempted to reduce US overextension by withdrawing from Europe and redeploying those units to Pacific Asia; the difference between an orderly reassessment of life, and a complete and total nervous breakdown, is a useful analogy to keep in mind. No one wants to see the USA have a Suez Crisis moment where one day they're on top of the world and the next day, the house of cards collapses - a gradual consolidation would be rather less traumatic for everyone really ;p
Also with all the doom and gloom it's worth saying I believe it'll be a strange world where the USA still isn't #1 for this century still, at least. More that in relative terms, the USA will go from a world without rivals to a world with several, and "international" will no longer be synonymous with "American"

[Teneb]

I should hope it is done consciously in an organised manner

LW, you know that is not going to happen. Why do you lie to yourself?

[Loud Whispers]

LW, you know that is not going to happen. Why do you lie to yourself?

I have a meme