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[MorleyDev]

Outside of London our police are still unarmed, with specialised counter-firearms teams sitting on-call. They're dotted around most cities, often sitting in unmarked vans and respond very quickly, but most police officers are not carrying a firearm.

Aside from fears of escalation, another reason police resist being armed is that being able to assume a populace without easy access to firearms means they get to actually get physically close to people. American police have to be very conscious that someone could pull out a gun, and carry guns themselves to respond. Which also has the effect that they can't actually tackle a person, since that person would then be close enough to take their gun and use it in the scuffle.

British police use "dog pile on someone to take them to the ground and cuff them" when dealing with someone aggressive or violent that they can't talk down, and that is something they couldn't easily do if they were carrying firearms.

Speaking of talking people down, they also are actually taught how to deescalate a situation instead of immediately meeting aggression with aggression, so they do often manage to talk a person down anyway.

[Loud Whispers]

Outside of London our police are still unarmed, with specialised counter-firearms teams sitting on-call. They're dotted around most cities, often sitting in unmarked vans and respond very quickly, but most police officers are not carrying a firearm.

The main benefit of police being able to assume a populace without easy access to firearms is they get to actually get close to people. American police have to be very conscious that someone could pull out a gun, and carry guns themselves to respond. Which also has the effect that they can't actually tackle a person, since that person would then be close enough to take their gun and use it in the scuffle.

Oh yeah that's a good point. It also helps keep your police force in the mindset of uniformed civilian, and not warrior cop. It's a shame but the cuts to our Police have also resulted in cuts to community support officers

Since 2010-11 the Met’s general grant funding from the Government has fallen by more than £700 million or nearly 40 per cent in real terms on a like for like basis and in recent years the Met police have had to find more than £600m of cuts.
This has led to the loss of a third of police staff posts – down from 14,330 to 9,985, two-thirds of police community support officer posts – down from 4,607 to 1,591, as well as 114 police station front counters and 120 police buildings.

This does nightmares for keeping people close to police

British police use "dog pile on someone to take them to the ground and cuff them" as their main port of call when dealing with someone aggressive or violent, and that is something they couldn't easily do if they were carrying firearms.

Check out this one where they arrest a dude with a machete

[MorleyDev]

Seen that video. Wheelie Bin: 1, Machete: 0

Also I did that thing again where I edited my post xD Didn't want to double post, but also wanted to mention that it helps that British Police are trained in deescalation tactics, so do actually manage to often talk people down or keep them contained instead of causing them to become more aggressive and dangerous, something that apparently some American police forces are starting to look at actually teaching their officers to do.

(Also interesting to read, the UK's National Decision Model for such incidents).

[Reelya]

Also of note, that thing people keep mentioning where NYC has less murders than London?

It literally didn't happen for more than a single month - February. So, yup, people should stop repeating it as a meme since it was merely a statistical blip and not indicative of any trend. In May and June for example, NYC had three times the murders of London. One of the suggestions for why NYC dipped so low at the time is that there were excessive snowstorms in NYC in January / February meaning people stayed indoors.

[smjjames]

I've never heard that argument about NYC having less murders than London.

[ChairmanPoo]

I have. A guy I know from the US was writing to me nonstop when I was staying in London about how it was very scary because of crime, and because the UK "is a police state" (yes, really).

I wouldn't say that London is my favourite place to live (I prefer small-to-medium-sized cities myself as far as qol is concerned... but then again I grew up in one. We all have our biases). But it's a country capital in Western Europe, not Gottham City. I didnt feel particularily unsafe, even though I was living in one of the (supposedly) worse neighbourhoods.

TBH my friend has a rather spotty record with fact-checkingn regarding Europe

[Reelya]

It was a commonly cited thing by pro-gun advocates a few months back. But it's based on a statistical anomaly that didn't last more than Feb, with March just barely coming even between the two cities. I was reminded of it, because on one youtube video linked today about gun control, people were using it as an anti-gun-control argument.

https://freebeacon.com/issues/gun-rights-group-cites-rising-london-murder-rate-example-failed-gun-control/

Alan Gottlieb, founder of the Second Amendment Foundation and chairman of the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, said the recent spike in killings shows criminals are undeterred by England's civilian gun bans and strict gun-control laws. "Last year, London recorded 80 fatal stabbings, which only proves that guns aren't the problem, criminals are," Gottlieb said. "And when violent criminals don't have guns, they resort to other lethal weapons."

He said English civilians face a situation where they are forced to disarm but face criminals who do not obey the nation's laws.

Which is a pretty weird argument when you think about it. If people aren't being shot as often then clearly gun control is working to stop criminals having the guns. So that's point (1). Secondly, if criminals are stabbing people instead then you can just stab them back, right? Meaning you're actually no worse off than you would be if both of you had a gun. So that's point (2). Third, it's fairly clear that the rise in stabbings is going to be less than the fall in shootings. So the net result is you being less likely to be killed by criminals. It's not really rocket science here.

[smjjames]

If you have to resort to statistical anomalies to make your case, you really don't have a case. Not you specifically, just anti-gun-control arguments in general.

[ChairmanPoo]

Spoiler: Stabbity stab (click to show/hide)

[smjjames]

Lol the fighter/warrior/barbarian (not sure which DnD class Seigwurst is supposed to be) vs Rogue argument.

[Kagus]

They call him Birk the Dirk.

[scriver]

Maybe the Siegwursts benefit from stabs by being there to dramatically finish the stabbees off. But would any of those stabs have any meaning if the Siegwursts had not been there to render the killing blow?

Most likely the most sound way is to have a  balanced ratio of Siegwursts and Birks and creating a cultural expression of ritualized fighting in which the people get and outlet for their flashy and spinny move reverence.

They call him Birk the Dirk.

Birk Borkasson

[Kagus]

Don't need to be dead to be out of the fight... A good stab can leave someone in no position to fight back.

Siegwurst is just mooching off of Birk's hard work to make himself look better, without actually contributing meaningfully.

[Loud Whispers]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Kagus]

In other, extremely important, news... Norwegian handball player Frank Løke has "stunned" and "horrified" audiences with his "ghastly" behavior during the latest episode of a popular TV series involving people dancing with each other. His dancing partner said of the incident: "What happened [at the dance] crossed a line".

What, you want details of his crime? You sick bastards. It pains and sickens me to even mention such despicable acts, but if I must...


...he showed up to the event and danced wearing only a mankini.

Spoiler: The Horror (click to show/hide)

I'm thinking Norway should reinstate the death penalty, personally.