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Author Topic: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread  (Read 1105599 times)

MorleyDev

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #8295 on: July 13, 2018, 07:42:58 am »

Yes, let's not trust the people who have just been going "just tell us what you want so we can actually start negotiating!" and so far have been acting in good faith despite it all, over the guy whose entire philosophy is one of screwing people over for their own benefit.

Given a choice, I choose the EU whole heartily.
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Il Palazzo

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #8296 on: July 13, 2018, 07:45:28 am »

But the EU wants to take UK's FREEDHUM! Don't you know anything?
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Loud Whispers

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #8297 on: July 13, 2018, 07:50:47 am »

Yes, let's not trust the people who have just been going "just tell us what you want so we can actually start negotiating!" and so far have been acting in good faith despite it all, over the guy whose entire philosophy is one of screwing people over for their own benefit.
Given a choice, I choose the EU whole heartily.
Lmao you have to quote yourself because you can't actually point to where the EU said it

But the EU wants to take UK's FREEDHUM! Don't you know anything?
There's no need to be arrogant

Sheb

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #8298 on: July 13, 2018, 07:51:23 am »

Balloon needed government approval to fly, Sadiq Khan ok'd it, perpetuating Sadiq Khan and Donald Trump's already pre-existing feud. Theresa May condemned Trump for retweeting a Britain First twitter post. Theresa May has not been quiet about her criticisms of Trump, which is unfortunate, because Theresa May and Trump both speak English. Subsequently of all US allies, partners, rivals, London has paradoxically been the last place the US President has visited.

Can't really fault you, Theresa May really should have gone full sycophant on Trump from a tactical point of view. But the Mayor of London not banning a protest isn't the same as the British government insulting Trump.

May's White Paper is a softish Brexit and Trump has been anti-EU (remember when Trump offered Macron a trade deal if France left the EU?). I can see why, in his mind international relations are zero-sum, bilateral deals. Small countries outside the EU can be bullied around in the way that an Union of 28 countries cannot. Likewise, a UK after a hard Brexit will be desperate for a trade deal, and he can take advantage of it.
It is not a "softish Brexit," as there is no such thing as a soft or hard Brexit, you either leave the European Union or you do not. There are no two independent nations as closely partnered as the USA and UK, and it's subsequently fucking ridiculous that the USA and UK are not allowed to make a trade deal with one another. I do not fear the Anglosphere, and I highly question your sense of priorities. You fear the USA bullying European nations, but with what leverage?

Okay, so you're pulling the very weak rethorical trick of redefining all the options you don't like as "not exiting the EU" so you can get the meaning you want out of the referendum. Switzerland, Norway, Turkey aren't in the EU, not matter your weak attempt at arguments. The rest of your screeching is really both beside the point, and... wrong. The US and the UK can make a trade deal if they want, but the UK can't ask to be in a custom union with the EU and also strike separate trade deal in goods.

As for the US bullying European nations, haven't you noticed how Trump has been threatening countries like South Korea to get some trad econcessions? The US is several time larger than the next EU country, and control large swathe of the planet's financial system. Witness how they've been able to re-sanction Iran practically on their own. You might not feel it that much since the UK is a reasonably large country, but coming from Belgium (which is still larger than your average EU country, pop-wise), I am certainly glad we have the EU to cover our interest.
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At the end of the day your leaders choose to accept or deny whatever trade deal they make (OH WAIT LOL THEY CAN'T), so in order to avoid such responsibility, you hand over control of your economy, currency, nation to an unaccountable assassin of multilateralism? I'm sure the Greeks, Irish or Slavs right now are feeling wonderful with all the freedom and clout they possess, having subjected themselves to the diktats of foreign powers with legal supremacy... To defeat the foreigner without.

Frankly, that idea that "You can always refuse a deal so they have no leverage" is so wrong I'm not even sure how to counter it. If that was right, no one would have leverage, ever. It sounds like the kind of screeching you hear from libertarians when they argue that you don't need minimum wages because the worker can always walk out of any deal. (Aslo note that within the EU, national Parliaments still vote on trade deal, so you're against wrong.)

The Greeks got shafted hard by the Euro crisis and the European response to it, no doubt. But the Irish and Slavs probably feels pretty good. Look at the way the EU has stood by the Irish on the question of the NI border. I mean, the EU is not some kind of faceless monster. It's another level of government, with representation, that do some things, and, generally do them well. And it provides a ton of benefits to its citizens.
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Anyway, so much for Trump's promise that the US would stand by the UK after Brexit, but hey, at this point anyone who believe anything that dude says has only himself to blame.
Oh, he also said that BoJo would made a great Prime Minister. I'm sure May is thrilled to have invited him over. Frankly, it seems that unless you're a bloody autocrat, you won't get Trump to say anything nice about you.
Theresa May is not the United Kingdom. It's the old adage that three quarters of Tory voters support leave, three quarters of Tory MPs support remain. It still boggles me why Theresa May has done so much to retard the Anglo-American partnership in order to appease the unappeasable.

Well, yeah, I meant those two sentence as separate. He said he'd stood by the UK, and now he is reneging is word. Not related, but Theresa May, who arranged the meeting, is probably thrilled by him endorsing her rival. So Theresa May isn't the UK, but Trump shafted both. :p


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"At the Nato news conference, however, Mr Trump said, “I think they like me a lot in the UK.” A recent YouGov poll found that Mr Trump’s favourability rating in the UK was minus 60."
While Britons really don’t like Donald Trump, they are more likely to back working with him than not - Yougov
If popularity was suffice for function we would not work with 99% of politicians

True, but Trump didn't say "They don't like me but they work with me" or something. I just loved the way the FT deadpan quoted him just to show that he was, as usual, spouting random words with no relation to reality in the next sent

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The more I think about it, the more I think that what the UK should have done is to immediately go for membership of the EEA, and then once that is done, use the time to negotiate something else and set up the infrastructure needed to replace what the EU did. In effect, use the EEA as the halfway-point.

It would also have had the advantage that people could have had more say on what was the exact goal of Brexit at subsequent elections. You know, vote UKIP or Tory if you want to exit the EEA, Labour if you want to stay in and LibDem if you want to go back in the EU or something depending on the position the various parties take. Because well, the referendum was about leaving the EU, the Brexiters didn't offer an alternative and there were claims all over the place.
The Tory manifesto was clear about leaving the European Economic Area when they promised the EU referendum in the first place, while the Libdems, SNP, Tories, Labour all concurred that voting to leave meant leaving the EEA. What you're suggesting is just revoting until Remain wins. Given the EU's history of ignoring votes until it gets the results it wants, and the ability for the EU to use British money to support the EU's political campaigning, what you suggest clearly benefits only one party and ignores the result of the referendum in its entirety.

Source? I distinctly remember some Leaver proposing Norway as a model. Hell, even the Leave Campaign website contains sentences like "Third, we will have a new UK-EU trading relationship. There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it. " Sounds like the EEA or something like that to me.

 In any case, if we believe what the Leave campaign was saying, what the People voted for was to keep full access to trade in good and services, including financial ones, while removing ECJ jurisdiction and EU regulations, stop paying into the EU while also keeping the EU funds coming and keep cooperation in all the parts the UK want but not the others.

There might also have been a free poney promised at some point.

In any case, that's not possible. None of the options offers all of that, and the EU has been pretty clear since day one that it was the case. Given this, no one know exactly what version of the UK-rEU relationship was the one with the most legitimacy. There is a reason that it's only now, almost 16 month after triggering Article 50, that May is able to present her white paper.

It should also be noted that the majority for leave with real, but not overwhelming (and apparently doens't exist anymore). In that sense, EEA membership make sense. This isn't "revoting until Remain wins". You'd be out. That would give you time. And surely, if being in the EEA is worse than being in the EU, it should be easier to convince people to leave the EEA later. Plus it removes the time constraint, leaving time for the UK to generate a potentially Swiss-like deal.


P.S. The Comission isn't out there to destroy the UK. It has a clear mandate, granted to it by the other governments, and is holding to it. Don't make them into bogeyman to hide the fact that Leaver politicians lied about what was possible and that Tories were then really good at being terrible negotiatiors.
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TD1

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #8299 on: July 13, 2018, 07:53:07 am »

*chokes on drink*

Good... *thumps chest* ... faith?!?

They are refusing to negotiate in a flexible manner, instead insisting that the UK leave the bloc before legal assurances can be made. They are actively trying to create division and uncertainty in Britain.

They are being pragmatic and just difficult enough to mucky up Brexit without looking too much like the big bad - it's simply how it goes when you leave the bloc!

But the EU wants to take UK's FREEDHUM! Don't you know anything?
Alas, the mockery of a moral position, she is very inappropriate, si?
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Sheb

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #8300 on: July 13, 2018, 07:56:29 am »

Yes, let's not trust the people who have just been going "just tell us what you want so we can actually start negotiating!" and so far have been acting in good faith despite it all, over the guy whose entire philosophy is one of screwing people over for their own benefit.
Given a choice, I choose the EU whole heartily.
Lmao you have to quote yourself because you can't actually point to where the EU said it




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*chokes on drink*

Good... *thumps chest* ... faith?!?

They are refusing to negotiate in a flexible manner, instead insisting that the UK leave the bloc before legal assurances can be made. They are actively trying to create division and uncertainty in Britain.

Uh, no? They were refusing to negotoiate before Article 50 was triggered. It's true that they lack flexibility, but that's because the EU is not a fully-fledged government and they are limited by their negotiation mandate. There is no problem with negotiating a deal before March 2019, that's what they've been doing.

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MorleyDev

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #8301 on: July 13, 2018, 07:57:47 am »

Lmao you have to quote yourself because you can't actually point to where the EU said it
EDIT: Darn sniped by Sheb.

More like i couldn't be bothered to go onto the BBC website and get from the archive one of the many, many, maaany times they said "We need to know what the UK wants so we can start negotiating" and when the initial chequers thing was published said "We finally have a point to start negotiating from". You know, the quotes that appeared in basically every BBC News article on Brexit and I assumed anyone following the Brexit news enough to have an opinion on the topic would have read?

Hang on, quick google for an example:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-leaders-uk-brexit-goals-ireland-taoiseach-leo-varadkar-aims-deal-eu-a8006261.html

But you know, details.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 08:06:45 am by MorleyDev »
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TD1

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #8302 on: July 13, 2018, 07:59:02 am »

With no legal assurance, I believe? I read a while back that it was leaving some British politicians angsty.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #8303 on: July 13, 2018, 08:25:09 am »

Can't really fault you, Theresa May really should have gone full sycophant on Trump from a tactical point of view. But the Mayor of London not banning a protest isn't the same as the British government insulting Trump.
No, for Theresa May to go full sycophant would have been a dreadful tactical and strategic mistake. It would have sufficed to cite personal differences while shepherding Trump around nice areas of the UK bereft of protestors, giving the impression of popular adoration. Giving approval and banning a protest are entirely two different things.

Okay, so you're pulling the very weak rethorical trick of redefining all the options you don't like as "not exiting the EU" so you can get the meaning you want out of the referendum. Switzerland, Norway, Turkey aren't in the EU, not matter your weak attempt at arguments. The rest of your screeching is really both beside the point, and... wrong. The US and the UK can make a trade deal if they want, but the UK can't ask to be in a custom union with the EU and also strike separate trade deal in goods.
You talk of redefining with weak rhetorical tricks, but the very notion of the soft Brexit was created by a Blairite spin doctor to get what they wanted out of the referendum. The European Union's principle mechanism of political integration is economic integration, and so you tell me that to have my country still follow the laws of the EU, to be regulated by the EU, to have free flow of goods, services, people e.t.c. is to have left the EU? That's a complete joke and you know it: You would be cackling to heaven and back seeing the EU leave only to be further integrated into its institutions. And no, you are wrong, the US and the UK cannot make a trade deal because the UK is still a member of the EU.

Frankly, that idea that "You can always refuse a deal so they have no leverage" is so wrong I'm not even sure how to counter it. If that was right, no one would have leverage, ever. It sounds like the kind of screeching you hear from libertarians when they argue that you don't need minimum wages because the worker can always walk out of any deal. (Aslo note that within the EU, national Parliaments still vote on trade deal, so you're against wrong.)
I love that, you admit have no argument except your own opinion. Talk about screeching - your toothless parliaments are complete jokes whose only choices are to approve the deals generously handed down to them by superior government. Literal Belgian screeching over Canadians

The Greeks got shafted hard by the Euro crisis and the European response to it, no doubt. But the Irish and Slavs probably feels pretty good. Look at the way the EU has stood by the Irish on the question of the NI border. I mean, the EU is not some kind of faceless monster.
...By using the peace process as a bargaining chip in their faceless games. The EU did not just shaft the Greeks, they destroyed their country.

It's another level of government, with representation, that do some things, and, generally do them well. And it provides a ton of benefits to its citizens.
*To its wealthy white citizens.

Well, yeah, I meant those two sentence as separate. He said he'd stood by the UK, and now he is reneging is word. Not related, but Theresa May, who arranged the meeting, is probably thrilled by him endorsing her rival. So Theresa May isn't the UK, but Trump shafted both. :p
Do you have a single source for him reneging on his word?

Source? I distinctly remember some Leaver proposing Norway as a model.
No, those were Conservatives who supported Remain.

Anyways this is useful, from 2016:
-...And everybody from the top people in the Remain campaign and the Leave campaign made it clear that leaving the European Union meant leaving the Single Market in terms of membership, of the Single Market.
And then they play a compilation of every single leader of all the UK political parties saying voting to leave the EU means leaving the EU single market.

Hell, even the Leave Campaign website contains sentences like "Third, we will have a new UK-EU trading relationship. There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it. " Sounds like the EEA or something like that to me.
Dude that paragraph is literally trash talking the single market and how we must leave it, and that's coming from the official leave campaign, which was selected officially by our government... Which was led by David Cameron, who was pro-Remain.

It should also be noted that the majority for leave with real, but not overwhelming (and apparently doens't exist anymore). In that sense, EEA membership make sense. This isn't "revoting until Remain wins". You'd be out. That would give you time. And surely, if being in the EEA is worse than being in the EU, it should be easier to convince people to leave the EEA later. Plus it removes the time constraint, leaving time for the UK to generate a potentially Swiss-like deal.
Apparently doesn't exist anymore? See what I mean, you have no grounding in reality but the absence of fact doesn't stop you from twisting everything in order to produce the result you want. It's another manufactured regrexit. Membership of the EEA would constitute losing even more sovereignty to the European Union and would give the EU further leverage and every day within the EEA would constitute further economic integration deeper into the EU. The EU could use that leverage to fuck over the entirety of the UK and balkanize it into 1m2 states and the remnant still wouldn't be able to leave, because it'd be giving all the cards to the EU. It is worse than revoting until you get the result you want, it is taking "Leave the European Union" to mean "Integrate further into the European Union," and then vote on further integration! Fucking ridiculous m8, we can't leave sooner enough.

P.S. The Comission isn't out there to destroy the UK. It has a clear mandate, granted to it by the other governments, and is holding to it. Don't make them into bogeyman to hide the fact that Leaver politicians lied about what was possible and that Tories were then really good at being terrible negotiatiors.
"A senior German MEP has sided with Theresa May in the Brexit talks, by accusing the EU negotiators of attempting to “punish” Britain.
Hans-Olaf Henkel accused Michel Barnier, the chief negotiator, of planning to impose a bad exit agreement on Britain as a warning to other countries tempted to leave the EU.
Guy Verhofstadt, the European Parliament's Brexit negotiator, was also guilty of wanting “to make a mess out of this whole unhappy situation”."

-It's nothing stupid Britons, ignore it, the EU just has your best interests at heart, why haven't you let your guard down yet <3

Loud Whispers

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #8304 on: July 13, 2018, 08:32:50 am »

More like i couldn't be bothered to go onto the BBC website and get from the archive one of the many, many, maaany times they said "We need to know what the UK wants so we can start negotiating" and when the initial chequers thing was published said "We finally have a point to start negotiating from". You know, the quotes that appeared in basically every BBC News article on Brexit and I assumed anyone following the Brexit news enough to have an opinion on the topic would have read?

Hang on, quick google for an example:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-leaders-uk-brexit-goals-ireland-taoiseach-leo-varadkar-aims-deal-eu-a8006261.html

But you know, details.
So I should just assume by standard you're too smug to post sources for anything you say? You are not above evidence just because you believe in your intellectual superiority. It's ludicrous that I'm supposed to assume you have read a single BBC article in your life when the only evidence you give me is your opinion, your arrogance, and a total disinterest in evidence.

MorleyDev

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #8305 on: July 13, 2018, 09:05:00 am »

Look, sorry. I'm tired and I've been a...let's be generous and say just a little bit snappy last couple of posts. Broke the cardinal rule of don't get into political discussions when already in a bad mood, I'm afraid.

It was assumed knowledge on my part that I thought didn't need citation, since it's what to me they seem to have been saying repeatedly and openly.

I admit assuming it was clearly a mistake. It's just seems like when someone at work asked me if "Catholics were the same religion as Christians", it through me for a loop hence my initial balking at being challenged on it.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 09:10:44 am by MorleyDev »
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Sheb

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #8306 on: July 13, 2018, 09:14:37 am »

"A senior German MEP has sided with Theresa May in the Brexit talks, by accusing the EU negotiators of attempting to “punish” Britain.
Hans-Olaf Henkel accused Michel Barnier, the chief negotiator, of planning to impose a bad exit agreement on Britain as a warning to other countries tempted to leave the EU.
Guy Verhofstadt, the European Parliament's Brexit negotiator, was also guilty of wanting “to make a mess out of this whole unhappy situation”."

-It's nothing stupid Britons, ignore it, the EU just has your best interests at heart, why haven't you let your guard down yet <3

You gotta love it when they're so desperate for validation they describe a first-term MEP from the AfD as "senior" to make it sounds more respectable.
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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #8307 on: July 13, 2018, 10:51:01 am »

Lel, Trump tries to backtrack on his criticism. Also this one.

@LW: I know Brexit to Leavers means exactly that, exit completely, not remain in the economic sphere either. However, reports and interpretations have the white papers coming off as a 'soft Brexit', and people have been talking about a 'hard Brexit' and a 'soft Brexit' (sometimes without really defining either one, outside the obvious) ever since Brexit started getting talked about. Mainly it just comes down to not even having a starting point for negotiations, just 'WE WANT TO EXIT!' without deciding first on how they want to do it, which was their biggest mistake.

Of course, then Theresa May decided to waste time by doing a snap election and focusing on that rather than the negotiations themselves.
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hector13

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #8308 on: July 13, 2018, 02:06:57 pm »

Theresa May made many mistakes, the most significant of which was to trigger Article 50 without a flippin' clue what course she wanted negotiations to actually take.

The rest of it is just because she's incompetent.
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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #8309 on: July 13, 2018, 03:24:03 pm »

So Trump said he didnt actually say what he said. As usual.

See LW, you misaprehend Trump. He's not just an egocentric despot. He's also highly arbitrary. There is no point in appeasing him
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