Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[smjjames]

I thought UKIP imploded due to their own hubris. It was already in the proccess of imploding when he left.

[Sheb]

That, and the fact that after the referendum, they pretty much had won. They wanted exit from the EU, the UK was exiting the EU.

[TD1]

Pretty much. They retain some relevance as a party which rages against the limitations a reluctant government necessarily provides, though.

[Loud Whispers]

I daresay Farage joined Fox BECAUSE UKIP was about to implode. Him leaving was a symptom, not the (main) cause.

I believe the opposite; that UKIP had always been in a perpetual state of explosion that had only been held together by the gravity of Farage

That, and the fact that after the referendum, they pretty much had won. They wanted exit from the EU, the UK was exiting the EU.

Won in the sense of the referendum, but it's 2 years on in and we're still in the EU ;P

[smjjames]

I daresay Farage joined Fox BECAUSE UKIP was about to implode. Him leaving was a symptom, not the (main) cause.

I believe the opposite; that UKIP had always been in a perpetual state of explosion that had only been held together by the gravity of Farage

That, and the fact that after the referendum, they pretty much had won. They wanted exit from the EU, the UK was exiting the EU.

Won in the sense of the referendum, but it's 2 years on in and we're still in the EU ;P

Maybe they imagined that it would be an instant ripping out of the tethers and cords connecting the UK to the EU?

Not sure where things are as far as the Brexit deal is, but I've heard that the latest main hangup has been how to deal with the North Ireland-Ireland border, namely how to deal with everything that you'd have to deal with in a border crossing because Ireland would still be in the EU and Ireland has major economic connections going through there. I doubt it's THE latest hangup, let alone the only one, but that's just one that I've heard about.

[Loud Whispers]

Maybe they imagined that it would be an instant ripping out of the tethers and cords connecting the UK to the EU?

That was one option, but I imagine most expected negotiations to drag on for a few weeks before the UK left the EU - certainly not years of negotiations leading to years of transitional periods which lead to years of negotiations for the penultimate transitioning period for the ultimate negotiations of deciding when to actually leave

Not sure where things are as far as the Brexit deal is, but I've heard that the latest main hangup has been how to deal with the North Ireland-Ireland border, namely how to deal with everything that you'd have to deal with in a border crossing because Ireland would still be in the EU and Ireland has major economic connections going through there. I doubt it's THE latest hangup, let alone the only one, but that's just one that I've heard about.

Yeah I saw a lot of snarky reddit shit about that from people who knew little about the situation but still wanted to voice their misinformation. The Ireland-Northern Ireland situation is pretty simple* for the immediate future, the Republic of Ireland is not a member of the schengen area nor is Northern Ireland or the UK. The UK and Ireland have had de facto free movement for the past century of peace time in their own bilateral agreements and cooperation, whilst both have maintained the same hesitance towards entangling one's nation with EU institutions. Ireland does not have land connections to the EU through Northern Ireland, its major connection is to Northern Ireland & the UK itself (which is something I would be intrigued to see change, if the EU built a tunnel connecting Ireland to the UK, Ireland would have a direct land connection to Europe through overland railway and the channel tunnel).

Regarding this, in an unusual display of unanimous sanity, Irish, British and EU leaders have all agreed to maintain the status quo in order to not provoke new troubles.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Green = Common Travel Area
Blue = Schengen Area
Grey = Dudes who use borders when their governments exist
*Thus it is simple for the purposes of travel arrangements. Everything stays the same in that regard

[smjjames]

The area that has a separation similar to where the channel tunnel is, is at the northeastern tip of the Emerald Isle, if aiming for a project similar to the size of the channel tunnel. Otherwise, the next best spot looks like between the Holyhead area and Dublin or just south of it. Or maybe two connecting the Isle of Man.

The only real issue is going to be the cost, as with all megaprojects.

[ChairmanPoo]

I dont think its  factible.  The very reason the English channel was drillable was because it used to be a peninsula's isthmus. Ireland/continent is another can of beans

[smjjames]

It's going to depend on the geology, that's true.

[TD1]

I've holidayed up there throughout my childhood.

You could probably dander across it if the sea froze, or you put a line of barges down.

[Culise]

Interestingly, the North Channel between Ulster and Scotland is actually the very deepest part of the Irish Sea and environs, if this has the right of it, though not at the very shortest span.  This talk wouldn't be without precedent, though.  Consideration of an Irish-British undersea tunnel, either at Kintyre, Galloway (both northern), Dublin-Wales (under the Irish Sea), or Rosslare-Wales (under St. George's Channel) apparently been bouncing around for a while.  The northern route would likely be best served by a bridge, though; while significant in its engineering challenges, it would likely be cheaper than an undersea tunnel, and similar and longer spans have been bridged in China and elsewhere.  But yes, expensive is the word for it.

[Sheb]

Maybe they imagined that it would be an instant ripping out of the tethers and cords connecting the UK to the EU?

That was one option, but I imagine most expected negotiations to drag on for a few weeks before the UK left the EU - certainly not years of negotiations leading to years of transitional periods which lead to years of negotiations for the penultimate transitioning period for the ultimate negotiations of deciding when to actually leave

Surely not anyone who paid even a modicum of attention to the issues? The sheer complexities of managing Britain's relation with the EU post-Brexit were always going to take years to sort out. Hell, plenty of people pointed out that the 2-years hard time limit after triggering article 50 was in part designed to make the exit process harder by shortening the negotiation period.

[Kagus]

What do you call an indecisive conservative in the U.K.?

A suppository!


Thank you, thank you... I'm here all week.

[TD1]

Your hearing's weak?

[Loud Whispers]

Surely not anyone who paid even a modicum of attention to the issues? The sheer complexities of managing Britain's relation with the EU post-Brexit were always going to take years to sort out. Hell, plenty of people pointed out that the 2-years hard time limit after triggering article 50 was in part designed to make the exit process harder by shortening the negotiation period.

To the first question: No, as the weakness of Theresa May's governance in regards to the internal political situation of the UK is the cause of this continual delay - where the EU Commission wanted a hasty brexit, and I was inclined to agree. Both sides of the channel are in concurrence that this will take much time to solve, and both sides are in concurrence it would have been best to manage post-Brexit relations post-Brexit. Trying to manage relations between an EU member leaving and the EU member retards this process considerably more than between a sovereign nation and the EU.

You must also consider that the UK has a faction which would have been rather happy to have left the EU without having triggered article 50 at all; there would have been nothing stopping a unilateral withdrawal at all, while our continued membership of the EU stops the UK from being able to manage our political and commercial post-Bexit relations with our Atlantic and Commonwealth partners. Greenland can do it and no one cries havoc, but the UK? Bloody Londongrad financiers I swer on me nan rite